“The day we start banning books, we are banning thinking” - Is majority India afraid of different opinions?

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thirusuj
“The day we start banning books, we are banning thinking” - Is majority India afraid of different opinions?

"The day we start banning books, we are banning thinking" - Jaswant Singh

 

India sees the founder of Pakistan (Mohammed Ali Jinnah) to be a "traitor" and has been demonized in every corner in India. The problem is that they are not looking at it from his perspective and anyone who does is also named "traitor" by the patriots who see the break of the original British India on a religious line as a tragic event and blame Jinnah as the cause of it.

 

Advani stays on as BJP's leader
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4080840.stm

Senior Indian politician expelled
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8208812.stm

India state bans book on Jinnah
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8211038.stm

How Indians see Jinnah
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4617667.stm

Why the Hindu right wing loves Mr Jinnah
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/2009/08/why_the_hindu_right_wing_loves_mr_jinnah.html#comments

thirusuj
Caissa

RP is this really necessary?

gandhi and nehru wanted a british cocc liccing hindu run gov

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

more colonialist propoganda most ppl in india are starving/functionally illiterate yet they continue with this shit and the real criminals were gandhi and nehru Jinnah was ok with 1 state he just wanted fair representation for muslims (and I believe maybe other minorities too not sure proly not) while gandhi and nehru wanted a bramin run gov who believe that they are "white aryans" (LOL) and believed white people are superior to them. (cuz quoted it in his autobiography that and that he would give up every son of india to britain if given the chance).

 

Fucc ghandhi cuzz

 

I would read the links but I already know what they gonna say so yea...

(proly read them later)

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

fixed used the wrongs words should have said bramin

HeywoodFloyd

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

fixed used the wrongs words should have said bramin

Yea...I make that mistake all the time.Undecided

marzo

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

more colonialist propoganda most ppl in india are starving/functionally illiterate yet they continue with this shit and the real criminals were gandhi and nehru Jinnah was ok with 1 state he just wanted fair representation for muslims (and I believe maybe other minorities too not sure proly not) while gandhi and nehru wanted a bramin run gov who believe that they are "white aryans" (LOL) and believed white people are superior to them. (cuz quoted it in his autobiography that and that he would give up every son of india to britain if given the chance).

 

Fucc ghandhi cuzz

 

I would read the links but I already know what they gonna say so yea...

(proly read them later)

This is nonsense. Mohandas Gandhi never said any such thing, he did not call for a brahmin government, and he didn't use the expression "white aryans". 

remind remind's picture

Well why should fact get in the way of a good rant?

 

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

marzo wrote:

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

more colonialist propoganda most ppl in india are starving/functionally illiterate yet they continue with this shit and the real criminals were gandhi and nehru Jinnah was ok with 1 state he just wanted fair representation for muslims (and I believe maybe other minorities too not sure proly not) while gandhi and nehru wanted a bramin run gov who believe that they are "white aryans" (LOL) and believed white people are superior to them. (cuz quoted it in his autobiography that and that he would give up every son of india to britain if given the chance).

 

Fucc ghandhi cuzz

 

I would read the links but I already know what they gonna say so yea...

(proly read them later)

This is nonsense. Mohandas Gandhi never said any such thing, he did not call for a brahmin government, and he didn't use the expression "white aryans". 

go look at his autobiography he also believed that higher caste indians were closer to whites and he didnt use the term white aryans but he did use aryan.

 

And why should facts get in the way of a good rant? Facts should be the basis which they are.

 

why dont you just google some shit like truth about gandhi do you really think if he was a real nigga the british would have let him live. Im not even up for arguing facts with white people today but compare the real revolutionaries who fought for independance all over the continent to this [epithet removed]. Str8 up ask ppl who were around that time ask ppl today the image white MSM gives of gandhi is very different from the actual man.

edit - And marzo if you dont know how shit works plz dont say he never called for a bramin governments its like Well Harper never called for a white gov. Is it a white government? Same thing british let bramins in power and to this day they still are and selling the country out to others. Bare are proper but most of the higher follyticians are bramin. That's a fact.

Ze

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:
most ppl in india are starving/functionally illiterate

Quote:
gandhi and nehru wanted a bramin run gov who believe that they are "white aryans" (LOL) and believed white people are superior to them. (cuz quoted it in his autobiography that and that he would give up every son of india to britain if given the chance).

I'm fairly sure those claims are incorrect, r_p. I'd also suggest a less literal-minded reading of G and N and that both men's views changed over time - the Gandhi of South African days is not the Gandhi that preached an end to untouchability, and he and Nehru had very different politics. 

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

na gandhi wrote that himself in his auto bio and quoted and he said that after the SA days. On top of that a british statesman one time said that it costs us millions to keep gandhi poor ie a lot of it was a publicity scam because at that time britain was quiccly losing control because ppl were rebelling and this was a way to hold onto to the colony.

 

Gandhi and Nehru were on the same side in the end and supported the same power structure.

 

Gandhi himself signed the warrant to hang a lot of the revolutionaries who led rebellions against the british such as Bhagat and Uddam Singh. On top of that cuz go look it up his son even said his father was like that.

 

Gandhi was a puppet employed by the british his love for white ppl only died when that bullet hit his dome.

Go look it up cuz and remember one thing the perception you have is shaped by the White MSM itz the same thing with MLK. Go ask brothas n sistas who fighting know what they think of him (not gonna go into detail on that cuz it'll cause the thread to drift).

 

There the white perception and white pplz world and then there's ours. The white one is a bubble where even undeniable facts and records will be altered to provide comfort in the lies that shape the course of this world we live in today.

Ze

Again, i think you're reading Gandhi way too literally there R_P. Hard to go much further (or "go and look it up") without knowing which passages you're referring to, though. When reading a text i personally think it's important to consider audience, for instance - what G said to Annie Besant's crew is not necessarily an accurate reflection of his own beliefs, etc etc. I don't claim G was a saint -- Amdekar had a perhaps better take than him on untouchability for instance--  but his ideas are far more complex than you're making out, and I don't think they amount to anything like Brahmin supremacy or making India a puppet of empire. Sure, he probably did love white people, but that in itself maybe isn't a vast crime, since he said he was all about loving everyone. Not an attack on the basis of empire and white supremacy, but not perhaps a mortal sin either.

As for the equation between the development-statist Nehru and the much more anti-statist Gandhi, well, i simply don't think it's accurate. Again, not much more i can say on the topic other than to disagree. Yeah, my perception is shaped by the "white MSM" but so is everyone's sadly. Even, I'm afraid, that of fighters who can't help being exposed to it. After all, that's part of how racism gets entrenched. 

By the way, the quote about the cost of keeping Gandhi in poverty comes from Sarojini Naidu and was repeated frequently by G himself. Yeah, he was self-mocking among other things. Perhaps I just have a soft spot for people with a sense of humour about themselves. ;)

thirusuj

RP is right, Ghandi is not an angel as he is portrayed in the western media and how he is understood by the majority Indians. He has alienated many people and made mockery of the armed struggle that was being fought in the background for Indian Independence. That armed struggle is what made British realize that holding on to India was not possible and they left before being humiliated. Ghandi took the credit and portrayed it as non-violence and made it seem like that is how India got it's independence. He really pissed me of when he called people who worked hard to achieve Indian independence as terrorists. Those who thinks RP is harsh on Ghandi, do you think Subash Chandra Bose or Bhat Singh was/were terrorists? British had superior fire power and they would have easily crushed Ghandi like they had done it before, they would have put a bullet through each and everyone for questioning the authority, it was the armed struggle that really made and brought down British India. Ghandi went further and alienated Jinnah, Annadurai and many more who worked along with him and was never given credit. Demonizong Jinnah to purify Ghandi's and Nehru wrongdoing is not going to correct thier mistakes or fix up the whole region.

thirusuj

Indians should be open to accept the mistakes and drop thier ignorance (western world should understand the whole picture before glorifying a highly possible opportunist as a freedom fighter). I would not hestiate to say that Jinnah was a much better human then Ghandi or Nehru combined. But I still have a lot more to learn about the struggle for Indian independence and events after independence before I can say more. But I do consider myself knowing enough to comment about Ghandi.

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

exactly realize that bare mandem not just us muthafuccas on the eastside of that original continet but all the way to the west joined up in ww1 as well 2 just to smuggle bacc choppaz into the country despite all the forced famines on all of us for example just in what you would call india there were over

 

Fucc let my niggas speak http://members.tripod.com/~INDIA_RESOURCE/colonial.html

 

The Colonial Legacy - Myths and Popular Beliefs

While few educated South Asians would deny that British Colonial rule was detrimental to the interests of the common people of the sub-continent - several harbor an illusion that the British weren't all bad. Didn't they, perhaps, educate us - build us modern cities, build us irrigation canals - protect our ancient monuments - etc. etc. And then, there are some who might even say that their record was actually superior to that of independent India's! Perhaps, it is time that the colonial record be retrieved from the archives and re-examined - so that those of us who weren't alive during the freedom movement can learn to distinguish between the myths and the reality."

 

read that whole shit go learn more shit Fucc Gandhi you can claim his ideas were complex and that shit about loving white ppl get outta here str8 up you dont get waht kind of love it was it was a servant to his "beloved" master so getta here. He doesnt love nobody cuz actions speak louder then words.

 

My ideas about him are simple as his. His face under my boot.

 

RBG All day

 

edit- and straight up rarely does a grown man change as much as they claim Gandhi did. If he wasnt ready to pop off when he was in SA and even before that what makes you think he would after? He was encouraging POC to join the british agains the boers because he beleived esp indians owed the british for shipping off to SA. On top of that checc this despite being for "peace" (dont pop massa plz he give me money LOL) he never denounced any war the british were in ww1, ww2, zulus, sikhs, boers, all thru the continent and farther cuz.

 

 

Fucc That Punk ass sellout

 

edit - and Thirusuj honestly the only indian ppl who actually like gandhi are like rich high caste bramins esp from Gujurat cuz thats his state. If a man is a product of his environment see how all the patelz and othe rppl from gujurat act like today on a general tip like the avg person. The same ppl who got some money kicced down to em the small minority in india who makes more then 20rs a day (gov admitted 80-85% made that much think about what the real # is) are the ones who love him cuz they get money off it and they delusional str8 up they my enemy cuz that ignorance and sellout ass fuccery. Just like rich ppl anywhere what do you think they gonna act like?

 

 

Michelle

Thank-you for removing that offensive homophobic line from your post, R_P.  I got complaints about it, but you had removed it before I got the complaints this morning.  I think you'll find you run into less trouble if you don't use sexual metaphors like that on babble.  They're generally offensive, and often sexist or homophobic.

Papal Bull

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

edit - and Thirusuj honestly the only indian ppl who actually like gandhi are like rich high caste bramins esp from Gujurat cuz thats his state. If a man is a product of his environment see how all the patelz and othe rppl from gujurat act like today on a general tip like the avg person. The same ppl who got some money kicced down to em the small minority in india who makes more then 20rs a day (gov admitted 80-85% made that much think about what the real # is) are the ones who love him cuz they get money off it and they delusional str8 up they my enemy cuz that ignorance and sellout ass fuccery. Just like rich ppl anywhere what do you think they gonna act like?

first bolded: got something to back up that assertion? I have friends whose family descend from a variety of background in India (and Nepal) and it isn't as though Gandhi is seen as some sort of monster like you seem to see him.

I think you're undermining other people and setting up a false dichotomy of one's actual financial status when regarding their admiration of Gandhi. Again lots and lots and lots of different backgrounds inhabit the subcontinent. However, who are you to say that these people are delusional and ascribe to them these characteristics? Do you have perhaps some articles that PROVE these assertions that people who like Gandhi are delusional because they are ignorant of the facts and engage in sellout assfuccery?

Caissa

Any chance you could edit this phrase out of #10 Rex Pun?

sellout ass coon.

 

Thanks for removing the offensive phrase from #2.

thirusuj

Indian author triggers firestorm
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/685931

thirusuj

RP,

 

I agree that it was the elite/rich Indians that were pouring in this ignorance. At the moment the enormous Indian middle class has joined the same ignorance and they are refusing to accept any academic debate or even an academic book on this issue (or any other issue which are considered un-Indian). It is simply unacceptable especially if they are aiming for superpower status. We already got a hyper power who couldn't differentiate terrorism (still haven't defined the word) and resistance. Think about India with the same attitude and three times the weight of the current superpower that would want it their way or face death.

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

Caissa wrote:

Any chance you could edit this phrase out of #10 Rex Pun?

sellout ass coon.

 

Thanks for removing the offensive phrase from #2.

no

 

Papal Bull Go search it urself Ive posted the articles on this b4 and Im through arguging at length only gonna say this.Papal bull lol do you realize most ppl esp the ones who aint born here will NEVER talk on a real tip to you they'll hide shit all over ppl got this tradition it's like you dont show weakness to outsiders and many would consider you the enemy so you really think they gonna do that?

And also Im not gonna try and explain how shit like religion will end up making a lot of ppl from diverse ancestries think they the same group and act in the same manner.

 

And itz always a vocal minority that causes shit the avg person probably knows who gandhi is maybe thinks he a hero but after that doesnt give a shit they need to put food on the table like everybody else itz why ppl in the hood dont vote for example cuz.

You could also not understand what sellout ass shit is and who am I to put those notions? Well Im that Nigga the one from the rex who schools kids like you when they act up Smile

 

Thirusuj itz funny though because middle class indian just means you got maybe a roof over ur head n if ur luccy a fridge itz poor by hood standards lol and itz only huge in numbers because it a billion people most of the population (gov study btw go wikipedia it even) shows wus craccin few % are getting a throwdown while the rest starving.

 

Inequality is always higher in the 3rd world a weird statistic is that africa has the higher luxury cars per capita... shows wus craccin

Ze

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

Caissa wrote:

Any chance you could edit this phrase out of #10 Rex Pun?

sellout ass coon.

 

Thanks for removing the offensive phrase from #2.

no

You're attached to the word "coon" are ya? 

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

Ze wrote:

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

Caissa wrote:

Any chance you could edit this phrase out of #10 Rex Pun?

sellout ass coon.

 

Thanks for removing the offensive phrase from #2.

no

You're attached to the word "coon" are ya? 

lol attached? I dont even get attached to pom I just feel itz a accurate description I changed the other one because I felt it wasnt since when the fucc do other ppl run me? Not this lifetime lol

Caissa

Let me see if I understand you Rex Pun. You see no problems with you referring to a POC, specifically Gandhi as a "coon"?

oldgoat

I would see a problem with it, but unless I'm going blind, (the nuns said that could happen) the offending phrase is gone, in which case let's not keep repeating it.

 

ETA: sorry, I'm looking at the wrong post.  Yup it's there all right.  ...get back to you.

Michelle

It's still in post 8 (not post 10). And it's completely inappropriate, and I am removing it.  R_P, that is oppressive language, and you may not use such racist epithets to describe people of colour here.

Also, for those net nannies who are more interested in scouring R_P's posts for infractions than in actually discussing the topic in the threads - how about flagging his posts and leaving it to the moderators to take action, instead of spending half the thread nagging?

Let's get back on topic.

George Victor

You tried to initiate an interesting discussion, thirusuj.

Omnia vincet amor, however.

thirusuj

George Victor wrote:

You tried to initiate an interesting discussion, thirusuj.

Omnia vincet amor, however.

I tried my best. Now lets get back on topic.

 

Pranab slams denigration of Nehru on partition
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pranab-slams-denigration-of-nehru-on-p...

I think congress needs to grow up and be open to accept the fact instead of worrying about holding on to thier Congress associated Ghandi-Nehru image.

Ze

Michelle wrote:

It's still in post 8 (not post 10). And it's completely inappropriate, and I am removing it.  R_P, that is oppressive language, and you may not use such racist epithets to describe people of colour here.

Also, for those net nannies who are more interested in scouring R_P's posts for infractions than in actually discussing the topic in the threads - how about flagging his posts and leaving it to the moderators to take action, instead of spending half the thread nagging?

Let's get back on topic.

I've discussed parts of the topic that interested me, so I hope "net nannies" isn't referring to me. But Michelle, would you really prefer people to run to the mods rather than point out this sort of language to the person using it? (I'll ask in reactions if you'd rather.)

On topic -- more fascist-style reactions from the BJP government of Gujarat are par for the course, yes? 

Just as a by-the-way: there's a campaign to get UCLA to stop naming one of its South Asia scholarship awards after Patel, who the campaigners call "an apologist for Hindutva." As with so many things, this goes way beyond South Asia.

--

"One law for the lion and the ox is oppression" - Blake

thirusuj

"It is a mistake to equate the demand for Pakistan with the partition of India"
http://www.tehelka.com/dotnet/mainheadline.asp?id=1

 

Jaswant, Jinnah and Ghost of India's Partition
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ws050909Ram_Puniyani.asp