The Donetsk National Republic lives!

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ikosmos ikosmos's picture

I'm putting some related news here - in regard to comments made by the (breakaway) Lugansk Republic leader in recent talks with the Ukrainian regime.

Quote:
Igor Plotnisky, the head of the Lugansk Republic, was compelled to state the following to Kiev (as well as Moscow): "We will not place ourselves under the jurisdiction [sovereignty] of Ukraine. This is the decision of our people, and I have not the right to change it." http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1967406.html
"Под юрисдикцию Украины мы не пойдем. Это решение народа, и я не имею право его менять", —

According to a fresh leak, the last round of the Minsk talks ended up in a diplomatically atypical way. After hearing the demands of the junta presented by Ukraine's former president and godfather of its oligarchs, Leonid Kuchma, the Lugansk and Donetsk representatives rose up and said, "Leonid Danilovich [Kuchma], go and f**k yourself," and left. http://dnr-news.com/…/11168-poyavilis-skandalnye-podrobnost…"

- Vladimir Suchan

"Leonid Danilovich, go and f**k yourself."

I'd say they're pretty convinced about their independence.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

This is a duplication of an entry from the Ukrainian thread but it merits a supplemental posting.

Aleksandr Zakharchenko addressed the president of Ukraine directly wrote:
“Esteemed Mr. President, I summoned you to the airport. There is a certain distance from the airport to Kiev, but from Peski the distance is shorter. I will summon you again from Peski. Every time we take a new town I will tell you how many kilometers to your residence. I don’t know how long this continue, but our meeting will take place, I promise you that".

They're coming for you, Poroshenko.

The DPR lives. Those who love freedom should support them.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Slava Donbass!

What follows is from a memorial to the victims of the Jan 22 trolley bombing in Donetsk.

Zakharchenko, wrote:
How could I express my condolences? You know, when our comrades, loved ones and neighbors are dying - a part of us is dying. I want to say one thing - they are killing us not because we wanted freedom, but because we are different. We were able to do what each of them was scared to do. This is what makes us different - bravery, pride and yes, a love of freedom. I don't agree that one should forgive the killers.

I want to say the following: Today began an offensive on Mariupol [the crowd cheers], God willing in a couple of days Debaltsevo cauldron will be closed. And it will be the best answer to honor the memory of the dead. Because we will pay back everyone, we will pay those who pulled the trigger or pushed the button which launched the missiles that killed our countrymen here. Those who shot people in Gorlovka, Makeevka, Yenakievo, Shakhtersk, Zhdanovka, Kirovka. Will pay back for each of our murdered child, and each old man innocently killed here. 

Glory to Donbass! Glory! (The crowd cheers)

And now I would like to have a moment of silence to all those killed by the Ukrainian punishers. 

Eternal memory to the dead!

and from the reporter ...

Юрия Котенка or Yuri Kotenka wrote:
A few minutes ago a memorial was held on Kuprina street, which was dedicated to the peaceful civilian victims, who were killed on January 22 by a missile which landed here.  The head of the Donetsk Republic Alexander Zakharcheno's words that the militia, defenders of Donbass,  launched an offensive on Mariupol, which is occupied by the Kiev junta, caused an ovation from the crowd. The people were supporting and cheering.  All of this is showing that they will be fighting to get their land back. All of this shows that Donbass will never be a part of Ukraine, to live with the killers in the same state - is not an option. Soon, in several hours, days, a Debaltsevo cauldron will be closed, were another group of Ukrainian punishers will find itself. There is a great number of heavy equipment and personel. If they don't surrender, they will be destroyed.  One cannot forget what a great significance Mariupol holds for Donbass - it is a great port city and a metallurgic center, one of the major industrial centers of former Ukraine, and now of Donetsk Republic. 

... and now of the Donetsk Republic.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

DPR PM Zakharchenko: on losses, etc. "We will be in Kiev and they will still be talking about "defending" the Donetsk Airport."

dated Jan 26, 2015.

Hey, Poroshenko! They're coming for you! And so are the local AZOV Battallion and other fascists who think you're doing a lousy job! Better get that Canadian or Israeli passport ready! Maybe you can join "hipster" Saakashvili in NYC!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

There is good news and there is bad news, as the saying goes.

The Saker wrote:
The good news: the junta appears to be completely unable to mount any effective offensive.  Except for one successful counter-attack north of Peski, even the junta can't even claim a single tactical success.

The bad news: the Novorussians are clearly stronger, and they are generally prevailing, but nowhere near the kind of superiority to achieve an operational breakthrough.

The intrepid author is of the opinion that the Debaltsevo cauldron will be closed, as a result of which "most of the junta forces will either die or be taken prisoner with only a minority extracted on time. " He is more pessimistic on retaking Mariupol. Unlike the junta, as the brutal false flag operation showed, the Armed Forces of the DNR has no wish to bombard civilian areas and this makes taking Mariupol more difficult. Especially when the junta uses the civilians as human shields. In fairness, I should add that the DNR troops were accused of the same thing by HRW or some similar organization; but, in general, these things are very asymmetrical since the resistance, as I am calling them, have so far no interest in inflicting civilian casualties on the territory controlled by the junta.

The issue of the mobilization of troops by the junta is a farce. I posted an article on the Ukraine2 thread which showed that a million Ukrainian men have now fled to Russia to avoid military service with the Poroshenko regime.

This has got to be the first time in human history in which prospective soldiers of a country "invaded" by another have fled, en masse, to the "invading" country. As the Saker notes, the junta is now using road cops to hunt down draft dodgers. 

Ukraine is, for all the world to see, a failed state.And they are running out of time. 

Long live a free Donbass!

NDPP

Kirby's War of Words With Manuel Ochsenreiter (audio)

http://rt.com/shows/tim-kirby/224567-donbass-ukriane-russia-kirby-manuel...

"Manuel Ochsenreiter has seen what's going on in the Donbass with his own eyes and he will tell us what it was like being in a war zone and observing the breakaway republics' elections. Manuel is editor in chief of 'Zuerst' magazine which is published in Germany..."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

One side is bombing civilian areas, the other is defending those areas. Unless the resistance marches all the way to Kiev, things are going to stay that way.

Why not just stop bombing civilian areas? And why is the President of Ukraine gloating about it?

6079_Smith_W

Because setting up military operations in civilian areas is essentially using non-combatants as human shields, despite all your sloganeering and drum-banging, ikosmos.

That's without getting into the pro-Russians' tactic of kidnapping hostages.

 

NDPP

I have no idea what this Ukrainian army video shows, except what UAF says it shows. I know it isn't 'Russian forces', since these don't exist here.  It's also quite dark but to my eyes looks rural and not particularly 'residential'  -  hardly downtown Donetsk. 

What we do know is that the vast preponderance of civilian casualties are deliberately calculated by the UAF, as a matter of policy and practice, to ethnically cleanse or terrorize the population to flee to Russia.

Furthermore, the only time this brutal and illegal bombardment of civilians is raised, despite its relentless occurence, is when the Nazis or their supporters attempt to blame DPR-LPR forces for their latest atrocity . Aside from that there has been virtually no notice paid to the awful mass murder of 'Moskali' in E Ukraine. As Harper and Poroshenko publicly agreed: 'Canada is the country most like Ukraine and Ukraine is the country most like Canada.'

Nor am I a 'russophile poster' just someone who recognizes the difference between 'a democratic people's revolution' and an American regime change operation operation to install a fascist puppet government in the interests of imperialism.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:
That's without getting into the pro-Russians' tactic of kidnapping hostages.

That's pretty rich coming from someone who supports a regime that drags people off the street to trade for genuine combatants ... since they already murdered and tortured the POWs and have no one left to trade.

Slumberjack

NDPP wrote:
 It's also quite dark but to my eyes looks rural and not particularly 'residential'  -  hardly downtown Donetsk. 

After all of the Russiaphobic commentary, I think it goes without saying that for the purposes of the Ukrainian apologentsia hereabouts, returning fire in the vicinity of a brick shithouse in the middle of nowhere would qualify as 'pro-Russian' rebels firing from residential areas and endangering civilians.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Well, yes, and as I've tried to point out, what the hell is the Ukrainian President doing gloating about this civilian bombing anyway?

That's just f*cked up.

Supplemental: When one of the "cyborg" Ukrainian commanders was captured near the Donetsk airport, the DPR commander interrogated him on TV. "Why are you bombing civilian neighbourhoods, you sonofabitch, " etc.

The "cyborg" tried to suggest that as long as the DPR Armed Forces were attacking the airport, the bombing of civilian areas would go on.

He got a rude slap across the face for that remark. Indiscriminate bombing like that is simply a terror tactic. And they know it.

(both the gloating by the Ukr President and the quoted interview above have already been linked to on these Ukr civil war related threads. )

6079_Smith_W

Hit a nerve, eh?

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

More like hit some children living in basements. You really want to argue about the merits of such military tactics?

Supplemental: The DPR commanders, Zakharchenko for sure for example, has taken to communicating directly with the parents of the soldiers he's captured. The conversations are there for all to see. This is marked contrast to what the Ukr regime and its private armies do.

Pierre C yr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAudOAnZS3U

What is being said by the video recorders here? You russophile posters might know... it seems to be rebels/russian forces firing from whithin a residential district. If the rebels cared about civilians casualties why dont they move out into the fields to meet the ukrainian army?

Pierre C yr

Across the road from a series of apt blocks in an artillery dual is in residential areas. And the ones firing know it. UA has been typically setup on the outskirts of cities manning roadblocks not in the middle of cities in what looks here like a soccer field. The UA side also has relatively unfettered access to western journalists. If they had been doing anything unethical like using civilians as human shields like the rebels are known to have done we'd have heard of it by now.

Slumberjack

Pierre C yr wrote:
If they had been doing anything unethical like using civilians as human shields like the rebels are known to have done we'd have heard of it by now.

Ye of boundless faith.

Pierre C yr

Slumberjack wrote:

Pierre C yr wrote:
If they had been doing anything unethical like using civilians as human shields like the rebels are known to have done we'd have heard of it by now.

Ye of boundless faith.

 

LOL the only retort you guys have is to describe the near entirety of western media, left and right, as a CIA org. Do you realize how weak it makes your position look? Mind you not as bad as being in bed with some of the most despicable regimes out there. The DNR is as much as republic as Somalia. Its an arms length thug, neo feudal, theocratic, mafia ultra capitalist venture of the Russian state bent on distracting its populace 9/11 style from the high class kleptocracy of Putin's regime with ultra nationalistic fantasies of nazies at the gates and Russian Empire building.

The whole thing being debated here is a sad example of either Russian Commentary Trolling or the delusion of pseudo intellectual anti western lunatics who long ago lost any sense of what progressive, social democratic or in anyway enlightened politics means. You guys harp notions and terms of 'freedom' the way the tea party does. Only to really serve the autocratic, religio-racist, homophobic, anti democratic and brutal thug rule of a relatively few but heavily armed by Russia eastern rednecks.

 

 

Slumberjack

After a rant like that, I really think you should follow the advice that the NDP seems to be observing for the most part where it concerns the matter of Ukraine, which is that for them 'silence is golden.'  Thanks for providing us with a sample of what we'd be treated to officially in the unlikely event of an NDP victory in the next election.

NDPP

Yes, they support Nazis in Ukraine, Yanqui coups there or in Venezuela, Israeli impunity, regime change in Syria, NATO destruction of Libya and possible war with Russia. These claim to be Canadian 'progressives', these ndp left neocons, in AD 2015. Now we begin to see why Harper has remained in power for so long and why alas it appears NDP really does mean no difference party.

Slumberjack

One thing that's strikingly visible in the battle footage clips is the high morale and motivation of the DNR's troops.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

NDPP wrote:
Now we begin to see why Harper has remained in power for so long and why alas it appears NDP really does mean no difference party.

Foreign policy is a subject that really exposes liberals, social democrats, etc., rather badly. They're unwilling to come out and express genuine solidarity [or internationalism as it was called] and instead they tail behind narratives of silence, or "good" Canadian corporations, or new war-like doctrines of "responsibility to protect" (R2P), and so on. Abstract support for human rights "in general" allows them to cherry pick whatever fashionable issue comes up. People like the former MP Svend Robinson are ruthlessly ostracized for stepping out of line on these issues.

Unfortunately, they also rely upon public ignorance and indifference about foreign policy. Or they are unwilling to challenge the successful bigoted narratives, such as the current Russophobic narrative which has a long and successful history in this country, immigration policies which invite conservative minded people and exclude more enlightened immigrants, and so on.

In some ways the public is more brainwashed on foreign policy than on anthing else. But this is really, to a large degree, the result of cultivated ignorance by the authorities and their captive mass media. Our American cousins are, on this score, more astonishingly ignorant than Candians are, but that isn't saying much.

The ugly truth is that the current regime in Ottawa can easily muster more sympathy for one Canadian soldier killed by some wing-nut than anyone can muster for thousands of civilians bombed by the brutal Kiev regime.

Alternative media, like rabble.ca,  is a beacon of hope but it is truly a candle shining in a great darkness.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Slumberjack wrote:
One thing that's strikingly visible in the battle footage clips is the high morale and motivation of the DNR's troops.

Yes, and the contrast with the mutual infighting among the supporters of the junta (some of whom have surrounded the Presidential office in Kiev in the last day or so in protest) is remarkable.

DPR leader Alexander Zakharchenko is one to watch for conveying this high morale.

Pierre C yr

Yea so motivated that out of a population basin of 5.2 million there are only 16 -20 000 rebels half of whom are russian regular troops and who were quickly losing the war they started until Russia sent in armored divisions to save them last fall. Lets see what unfetterred access to media coverage on the rebel side would produce in reality as it likely is: a diverse set of opinions like Vice showed in a long running youtube series and a rebel leadership steeped in orthodox and fundamentalist islamic religiosity and brutal paternalistic, autocratic and chaotically divided regime where every town in the eastern enclave has its own little warlord.

While you celebrate the violent overthrow by a neo feudal kleptocrat fascist bigot in Moscow of a desperate populist and democratic attempt to end 20 years of deep corruption in Ukraine since the end of the cold war, all the while digging up any little nugget of right wing ideology you can label as nazi that actually exists in all western and many other countries to assuage the fact you are morally in bed with murderers, think of the civilians and other innocents these 'rebels' tortured imprisoned and murdered while running their fiefdom as repeatedly exposed by the UN and various human rights monitoring agencies.

Oh ya thats right those agencies are with the CIA too right?

Dont mind me then and carry on with your delusions...

Just do me one favor. If any of you who believe these fantasies about these eastern murderers as 'freedom fighters' have an NDP party card please tear it up and join the Liberals or Green party instead. Or no party if you prefer. Ive already thrown out one local guy here for such absurd views. Id love nothing more than to see my party freed from such as relegated to the moral gutter you are in.

 

 

 

NDPP

Thanks for giving us your NDP take on Ukraine. These views result from what is being disseminated by the NDP, the Canadian media and the Canadian political class in general. You should seriously consider decontaminating yourself from what is obviously a virulent case of propaganda sickness.

As with Libya and Syria, etc.  Canadian 'progressives' have been suckered into supporting positions that are anything but.

More on those helping infect you below:

 

Toronto Star is Running With the Extreme Right in Ukraine  - by Roger Annis

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/30/toronto-star-is-running-with-the-...

"The Right Sector was again featured prominently by the UCC at an event in Toronto on Nov 29 to commemorate a one year anniversary of the Euro Maidan movement. Right Sector operative Valeriy Chobotar was brought all the way from Ukraine, and the featured speaker, NDP Member of Parliament Peggy Nash shared the platform with him and praised the war being waged by the Kyiv government and the battalions...

Progressive and antiwar Canadians need to speak in larger and louder numbers against Ottawa and NATO's pro-war cause."

 

iyraste1313

.....Yea so motivated that out of a population basin of 5.2 million there are only 16 -20 000 rebels half of whom are russian regular troops and who were quickly losing the war they started until Russia sent in armored divisions to save them last fall....

 

I guess I better buy some glasses to improve my sight, or maybe take some GMO foods to straighten out my deluded mind....as when I was living in Donetsk, never saw a Russian soldier...just hundreds and hundreds of volunteers all over the streets, filling sandbags to build their barricades, hundreds and hundreds of volunteers signing up at enlistment centres daily, while watching the Ukrainian planes bombing peoples apartment buildings in the nearby towns...

last I read there are now over a million Ukrainian draftees escaping to Russia, the supposed enemy, but of course that also is just Russian propaganda....

I talked to people in the DPR, in good paying positions in the universities, in government offices all scared shitless that they´d be out of work as they couldn´t speak Ukrainian...o yes only 16 to 20,000 rebels?

NDPP

What is especially depressing about all this Iyra, is that it is kind of a litmus test of people's ability to discern fact from propaganda and fantasy. In the Ukraine thread, some still insist there's no Nazis and no US backed coup took place.  That so many Canadians are so captivated and convinced by such obviously false news, indicates that we are dealing with a particularly degraded and destroyed political consciousness. Clearly much of  the Canadian body politic and more importantly the head as well, are not going to be up to battling the powers that be here at home....

Slumberjack

Today's successors to the OUN-B, in their mouth foaming rush to rewrite history, even demolished a monument to Russian Field Marshall Mikhail Kutuzov in the city of Brody in western Ukraine, who was one of the principle architects of Napoleon's defeat in 1812.  What is surprizing is the vast extent to which Polish history must have been re-written in so short a time since the collapse of the Warsaw Pact.  The Ukrainian Insurgent Army in it's day launched as many or more devastatingly cruel pograms against Polish nationals in Galacia as they did against Jewish people who lived in the region.  The entire region is a vast cauldron of ancient and modern hatreds mixed and stirred often and vigourously by whomever has a political axe to grind.  Speaking of axes, the Ukrainian nationalist insurgents often used pikes and axes to clear out undesirable communities in the 30's, 40's and into the early 50's.  They'd go from one village to the next in this manner recreating the worst of the dark ages.  Today the western corporate powers finds a new use for the successor generations of this filth, just as the Nazis proper did when they invaded the Soviet Union.  I don't know why Babble tolerates the kind of support for extreme right wing Ukrainian nationalists that we've been witness to in these threads.

6079_Smith_W

Slumberjack wrote:

I don't know why Babble tolerates the kind of support for extreme right wing Ukrainian nationalists that we've been witness to in these threads.

I don't know, SJ. But feel free to keep whining to the mods to censor whatever it is you think should not be expressed here. Seems to me they are taking a bit more of a hands-off approach; can't imagine why.

Might have something to do with some people complaining about alleged fascist tendencies. Seems to me this is the open and free exchange some people asked for, no?

 

 

 

 

Slumberjack

Why don't you go and read up on some history to get a better idea of what you're aligning with by default.

6079_Smith_W

Yeah, NDPP beat you to it. Nazis.  If you don't care about the validity of that claim well I don't either.

Care to stop whining now?

 

NDPP

To All Ukraine's Loyal Supporters in Canada

https://twitter.com/AltairSaid/status/561939814346682368/photo/1

6079_Smith_W

If you can clarify, NDPP, is that slur directed at the neo-Nazi minority supporting Ukrainian naitonalism, or the neo-Nazis on the pro-Russian side? Fact is, that sentiment can be found in both camps.

Like the former head of the Donetsk people's militia, nearly killed not too long ago in some feud among the rebels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/oops-pro-russian-donetsk-separat...

Sorry. Try again.

 

NDPP

He's no longer active in Novorossiyan politics. And his nationalist youth group membership in his teens was before he did three degrees in law, history and state management. There's lots of videos online of him and people can make up their own minds.

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

He's no longer active in Novorossiyan politics.

Right. Like Trotsky is no longer active in politics.

https://news.vice.com/article/eastern-ukraine-rebel-leader-pavel-gubarev...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
And his nationalist youth group membership in his teens was before he did three degrees in law, history and state management.

Children conscripted into nationalist youth groups are still completely responsible for their repugnant choice to be conscripted.  Just ask former Pope Benedict.  Or search for some babble threads on the topic.

NDPP

Donetsk Republic Memorandum Declares State Continuity with Donestsk Krivoy Rog Republic

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/02/donetsk-republic-memorandum-declares...

"...In the late 80's the 'International Donbass Movement' was created under the leadership of Dmitry Kornilov, which in 1991 raised the black-blue-and-red-flag of the DKR.

In March 1994 the people of Donbass called for the federal structure of the state. Federal trends were expressed at the Sverodonetsk Congress in 2004, where a decision was made to hold a referendum in Donesk and Lugansk oblasts on the issue of gaining the status of autonomous republics.

Such attempts to reorganize the state were declared as criminal by the Kiev authorities. Popular protest resulted in the creation of a political movement 'Donetsk Republic'. The people of Donetsk finally confirmed their choice at the referendum of 2014...

We, members of the People's Council of Donetsk People's Republic, recognizing our responsibility to the past and paving the way to the future:

declare the continuation of the traditions of Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Republic and declare that the state of Donetsk People's Republic is its successor..."

iyraste1313

Clearly much of  the Canadian body politic and more importantly the head as well, are not going to be up to battling the powers that be here at home....

and apologies to some if I continue to steer towards activism (not the gameshow called party politics)...

what it will take for people to learn reality is for organization outside the corporate party institutions, where political education can take place, something which was tried in the Greens til the opportunists took control decades ago....

just in a political meeting discussing land occupations, where the people curious about the low price of gas and hearing my views, asked me to make a presentation before their entire community....here the communities are organized to fight for their rights, for fair prices, for land and housing, excited to learn about what´s really going on in the world...

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Has Donetsk been betrayed by Moscow?

Mark Sleboda wrote:
Vladimir Suchan is unfortunately perfectly correct on this. As I've said before, Moscow still set on selling NovoRossiya and its people back to Kiev and the West for a "good price" in federalization and influence, despite the NAF winning so convincingly on the battlefield in Donbass:

"On the talks in Moscow between Putin, Merkel and Hollande: the key result is an agreement to try to hammer out an "agreement on the IMPLEMENTATION of the Minsk Agreements." The wording and editing is planned for tomorrow, and the possible agreement might be published (at least in its public portion) on Sunday, if the work succeeds. However, it seems that there is a basic understanding of the will of Moscow and the West to enter a new, somewhat modified phase of the "implementation" of the Minsk deal. The implementation document is said to be based on the proposals of Poroshenko and Putin, which means that it is based on som form of Western demands as mediated and communicated by Merkel and Hollande.

Importantly and tellingly, the negotiations of this new implementation of the Minsk agreements are to be in the Normandy format and NOT in the Minsk format. What it means is that Moscow agreed to exclude the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics from having any part in ironing out the "implementation" of the deal, which could seal the life and status of the two break-away republics. In this way, as before, Moscow signed and gave away even the idea that the two republics are any independent or politically relevant subjects, not to mention "equal partners" in talks with Kiev.

In fact, already in the Minsk process, the two republics were merely treated as added witnesses to the decisions made for them by others, and their representatives were asked to sign on the documents only with their personal names without any titles or names of the republics, which they represent."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

The DPR became a legal successor of the Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog Republic

Quote:
The Parliament of the DPR adopted a memorandum in this regard today.

“We confirm historical connection of state formations the Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog Republic and the Donetsk Peoples’ Republic.
The Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog Republic (DKR) was established on February 12, 1918 at the IV Congress of the Soviets of the Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog Basin on the basis of the concept of economic integration. The founding father of the multinational people’s state was Fedor Sergeyev (Artem). Territories of the former Kharkov and Yekaterinoslav Governorates, the Krivoy Rog Region of the Kherson Governorate, several counties of Tauric Governotrate and the industrial regions of the Don Cossack Host constituted the Republic.
The Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog Republic did not cease to exist officially in spite of German occupation, hostilities and social catastrophes. Its ideas were alive in the hearts and souls of millions of people”.

 

NDPP

It has been so sad that, as with the destruction of Libya, we once again see people who define themselves as Canadian 'progressives' follow the lead of their corrupt political representatives, especially the NDP in organizing support for the fascist, imperialist side and against people on whose side they should be standing...

Spanish Volunteer Ramiro Gomez in Lugansk: 'In War it is All About Surviving and Moving Forward' (and vid)

http://slavyangrad.org/2014/11/05/spanish-volunteer-in-lugansk-in-a-war-...

"Most people think: 'This is our land. One thing that struck me is how valiant the people are. I think we should admire this."

NDPP

What is the Donbass Fighting For?  -  by Edward Birov

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2015/02/what-is-donbass-fighting-for.html

"...Moscow and Donbass are compelling Kiev (which has been taken over by Banderovites and Americans) to take Russia's interests into account. The Donbass, in a figurative sense, binds the remainder of the Ukraine to Russia, and stops that remainder from forging a definitive break from Russia.

Moreover, this threatens the main political project, that of 'The Ukraine Is Not Russia,' whose driving principle is the establishment of a mono-ethnic Ukrainian State, that is an end point where all citizens of the Ukraine, in one voice, hate Russians and are in fact Nazis.

The task ahead for Donbass is complex and will demand enormous effort. The future Novorossiya has to become a beacon for the rest of the east and evntually a Nazi-free model for the whole Ukraine. This can be achieved by war, diplomatic or economic means.

At the moment, only a military solution is in motion, which, tragically, is leading to enormous fatalities amongst the civilian population. In order to progress to a non-military phase, a truce and a real cease-fire is required. Moscow is trying to achieve this through the Minsk agreement.

Ultimately, it must be understood that the redemption of Ukraine is dependent on the results of the global confrontation between Moscow and Washington, the US and Russia, between the West and everyone else.

The trump cards of the west are the dollar and resultant financial colonialism. If this collapses, the Ukraine, Syria, Afghanistan and the rest will be freed.

The whole world will change beyond recognition."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Even the corporate media is starting to crack in regard to the steady stream of lies about the resistance.

FT wrote:
School lessons and shelling forge new identity in east Ukraine

Courtney Weaver in Donbass

'War has changed us': a Donetsk resident tries to salvage belongings from a badly damaged residential building this week
As world leaders convened in Minsk this week to decide the fate of east Ukraine, Tatiana Prussova, a teacher at Khartsysk school number 23, stood in front of her class, a map on the wall behind her.

For 10 minutes, she led a group of 15 and 16-year-old students through the day’s lesson: a review of the recent developments in the self-declared Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR). She explained a new local holiday — February 8: Day of the Young Anti-Fascist Heroes — and recounted a pivotal week in which the US was considering arming Kiev while the rebel army had gained ground around the crucial rail hub of Debaltseve.

“Thanks to the gains of our Donetsk People’s Republic rebels, the road to Debaltseve has been closed and the town has been encircled,” Ms Prussova told the students, gesturing at the map in the same way other history teachers might point to the battle lines in Flanders or the Napoleonic War.

The class is one of dozens of so-called political information lessons now being taught at schools across rebel-controlled east Ukraine. It is a Soviet tradition that was disbanded following the fall of the USSR but has been revived by the pro-Russian DPR’s education ministry.

“We decided to inform the children from an objective point of view about the current developments of what’s happening inside the Donetsk People’s Republic,” said Lidiya Aksyonova, the school’s principal. “The beliefs that we form here in school will in 10 years become the political views of our government.”

While some may see this week’s Minsk memorandum, which calls for a ceasefire in east Ukraine and the eventual re-establishment of national borders, as the first step towards the DPR’s disbandment, there are few signs in the region of a rebel leadership preparing to relinquish control — or a society that wants them to.

After a months-long siege that has destroyed local infrastructure, and left the population under the near-constant percussion of artillery, a new sense of regional identity has taken hold in Donetsk. Though some of it is being transmitted through top-down initiatives such as Ms Prussova’s class, much of it has come through the Ukrainian army’s shelling, which has turned many formerly pro-Ukrainian locals against Kiev.

Another source of anger for many was an October speech by President Petro Poroshenko of Ukraine, in which he declared that the region’s citizens would suffer for the rebel leaders’ actions. “Our children will go to school and nursery school, and theirs will sit in basement!” he declared, waving a finger.

Poroshenko was talking about bombing children, make no mistake. And forcing them to hide in basements.

Quote:
“As a student, as the future generation, I was for a united Ukraine. We really believed in Poroshenko,” said Yekaterina, a 20-year-old student at Donetsk National University. While her family fled to the Ukrainian side during the summer, they were forced to return to Donetsk in September after they ran out of money. It was then that her feelings changed.

“We thought [Mr Poroshenko] would come to Donetsk, but he didn’t come once,” she said. She dismissed claims that Donetsk locals were being brainwashed by the rebel leadership and Russian television. “You don’t need to be a soldier to understand from what direction artillery fire is coming,” she said. “We have access to the internet. We’re not in the stone age. We’re not zombies.”

What a great quote.

You don’t need to be a soldier to understand from what direction artillery fire is coming.

You don’t need to be a soldier to understand from what direction artillery fire is coming.

You don’t need to be a soldier to understand from what direction artillery fire is coming.

Quote:
In Donetsk’s Kievsky district, one of the most heavily bombed parts of the city, a middle-aged worker named Svetlana said she had been living underground in a cold war-era bomb shelter with 50 of her neighbours since the bombing began in May. While she refused to take part in the separatists’ referendum and appeal to join Russia in May — “I could tell that something smelt funny,” she explained — her views changed during the months underground.

“How can I be for a united Ukraine when Kiev has spent the past six months bombing us?” she asked. “They came to power and destroyed the entire infrastructure of southeast Ukraine.”

Enrique Menendez, a Ukrainian-born businessman with Spanish roots, said one of Kiev’s biggest mistakes was to vilify the people of southeastern Ukrainian rather than open a dialogue.

“At the beginning, a lot of journalists, bloggers, opinion leaders — most of them pro-Ukrainian — left Donetsk. But when they got to Kiev, the rhetoric [about southeast Ukraine] was very negative,” said Mr Menendez. “This aggression and lack of understanding of what was going on here really offended the people that stayed behind.”

One of a dozen organisers of a March rally for a united Ukraine, Mr Menendez eventually decided to stay in Donetsk to set up an organisation that delivers humanitarian aid.

In August, there were only five people left in his apartment building. They would crowd into the corridor during the worst of the shelling. Now, nearly all the 80 or so former residents have returned.

The wartime mentality has changed us,” he explained. “We’ve stopped valuing the superficial things in life. We’ve lost everything: our savings, our prospects, our businesses. Some people lost their relatives. But we’ve become more pure.”

Even though the rumble of artillery fire could still be heard in central Donetsk this week, much of city life felt normal. A ghost town for much of last year, most of the city’s residents have now returned. Restaurants and shops are reopening, and most local schools are in session.

Igor Kostenok, the DPR’s education minister, appears determined to use his post to encourage a lasting regional identity. In addition to the new political information classes, Mr Kostenok said schools would also teach students about the experience of youngsters who fought for the rebels during the summer.

“Our story of the Great Patriotic War [second world war] tells us that many children who were forced to grow up early because of the war took up arms and defended their home. History is doomed to repeat itself,” he said.

One such youngster is Alexander Vasin, a 16-year-old student from the Donetsk suburbs who fought at Donetsk airport over the summer in a rebel battalion called the 15th International Brigade, despite his parents’ objections. He returned when school resumed in September, but said he would go back to the battalion later this year if the war had not ended. Of the fighting, he said: “It’s difficult at the beginning, but you get used to it.”

A video of the fighting he shot on his mobile phone won a prize from the DPR education ministry and is now being shown at schools across the region.

Geoff

Perhaps the uprising in Donetsk will inspire the people of Chechnya to resume their fight for independence from Russia.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Geoff wrote:
Perhaps the uprising in Donetsk will inspire the people of Chechnya to resume their fight for independence from Russia.

Given that Russian President Putin has completely turned things around there, and the fact that Chechen troops are volunteering to fight with the Donetsk resistance, I'd say that your wish is about as likely as pigs flying.

Geoff

ikosmos wrote:

Geoff wrote:
Perhaps the uprising in Donetsk will inspire the people of Chechnya to resume their fight for independence from Russia.

Given that Russian President Putin has completely turned things around there, and the fact that Chechen troops are volunteering to fight with the Donetsk resistance, I'd say that your wish is about as likely as pigs flying.

 

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture
NDPP

@ Geoff:

Probably not as long as Chechnya's popular young leader Ramzan Kadyrov has anything to say about it:

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2015/01/ramzan-kadyrov-on-takfiri-terro...

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Now there's a commander!

His men were OK. He took a hit.

Zahkarchenko: "The entire country is fighting."

Those that are good have to have fists!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

David Bowie sides with freedom ... and just might play in the Donbass!

 

 

David Bowie wrote:
I bend a knee before the courage and will for freedom of the citizens of East Ukraine. In fact, they battle for the independence against all so-called western "democracy"  - rotted through and false completely ...Yes, believe it, I too dream to become a hero, at least for one day...

Amazing. I particularly like that a queer-friendly public figure such as David Bowie is saying these things. Among other things, it will befuddle Russian homophobes who, more likely than not, have by now a contemptuous attitude to Western LGBT and think that nothing of value will come from them.

I really didn't think Bowie had it in him [the Nietzchean language notwithstanding] . There's some real humility there that, frankly, surprises the f*ck out of me.

 

Bravo, David Bowie!

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