Labour inches towards confirmatory referendum

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NorthReport
Labour inches towards confirmatory referendum

This is huge, Corbyn is showing constructive Leadership, and is definitely a good omen for Labour in the next general election! Finally.

Corbyn backs referendum on Brexit deal after voter exodus

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/27/jeremy-corbyn-signals-more-support-for-second-referendum-after-voter-exodus

 

josh

Just what we need.  Another Brexit thread.  

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

If the anti-Corbynites were acting out of ANY level of personal decency, they would agree that this decision means they should stop trying to force Corbyn out and work with him, from now on, for victory.  None of them will, though-they won't accept anything but the restoration of the Blairite ascendancy, even though the 2010 and 2015 results prove that Labour can never win another election on a Blairite programme.

NDPP

George Galloway is right:

https://on.rt.com/9v81

"The Labour Party as we knew (and some of us loved) it, is dead. Jeremy Corbyn's sincere, often skillful, walk down the middle of the road ended as such walks always do - in his being hit by traffic going both ways.

When his effectively number-two man Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, like so many an erstwhile Trotskyist - joined the betrayal of democracy cause in a tweet, the morning after the results, the writing was on the wall for Corbyn. McDonnell joins up with Labour's disloyal deputy leader Tom Watson, leadership hopeful Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry, and Shadow Brexit Secretary Sir Keir Starmer QC, to demand an immediate volte-face by Corbyn  in full unequivocal support for a new referendum with labour campaigning for remaining in the EU, he signed Corbyn's political death warrant.

In any case, gone is the elan, the campaigning brilliance, the new broom Corbyn represented just two years ago. Bled pale by compromise, appeasement of his enemies - the fifth column without whom he'd have already been in Downing St - and the relentless attrition of false accusations, fake news and sheer mendacity. Corbyn is now a dead man walking..."

 

Watson Mocked After At Least FIVE Parts Of His Attack Article Match 'People's Vote' Briefing Notes Near-Verbatim

https://twitter.com/skwawkbox/status/1132739604736598016

 

Never Forget: Jeremy Corbyn on BREXIT (and vid)

https://twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/status/862292802708832260

"We accept the results of the Referendum. Britain is leaving the European Union."

NDPP

'Notice To UK Labour Members'

https://twitter.com/damian_from/status/1133125588292702208

"The Labour MPs pushing for a 'Peoples Vote' are the same MPs who have been involved in the four-year chicken-coup to topple the leader. 'Peoples Vote' is nothing more than a continuation of that coup. If you support it you are part of the coup."

 

"The idea that anyone would see these extraordinary results for the Brexit Party and jump to the conclusion that Labour should back a second referendum is madness. Labour must stand for working people or we stand for nothing."

https://twitter.com/blue_labour/status/1132780532717240320

NorthReport

Corbyn's job is to get elected Prime Minister. 

He looks outside and its sunny so he thinks that he will go out later in shirtsleeves. Later on he decides to go out and it's raining. Should he not go and get an umbrella or put on a trenchcoat or would you prefer he gets drenched? 

Healthy people usually change their behaviour when circumstances change.   

Brexit was created by, and is for the benefit of the one percenters. There is a message there.

 

 

NorthReport

 

What if, what if.

Close only counts in horseshoes.

According to the Lib Dem Leader Cable if there had been a pact amongst the Remain forces they would have defeated the Brexit Party

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/27/remain-forces-pact-would-have-helped-lib-dems-beat-brexit-party-says-cable

NorthReport
NorthReport
nicky

Embracing Remain will help Labour but it still has the electoral albatross of Corbyn himself.

His vascilation over Brexit will make him an unlikely and unconvincing voice for Remain.

on top of that, he is monumentally unpopular. 4 to 1 negatives in recent polling, incredibly even worse than Theresa May.

and for good reason. He is seen as dogmatic, out of touch, inarticulate, unprincipled in wavering on Brexit and confronting anti- semitism, controlled by a tight clique, unqualified, incompetent.

he also just turned 70. He should step aside for the good of his party.

I am sure you agree, don’t you Ken and Josh.

NorthReport

Even some Tories want a 2nd Referendum now but only because they are worried about the Lib Dem

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/george-osborne-backs-second-referendum-on-brexit/amp/

josh

Osborne is and was a remainer.

NorthReport
NorthReport

 

It seems there are 3 camps - Hard Brexit Soft Brexit and No Brexit 

The Conservative strategy probably will be to try and scare everyone with a Hard Brexit but they actually want a Soft Brexit

Minority Parliaments are the best

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/28/farage-tories-brexiteer-gove-johnson-showdown

NorthReport

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NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport

Corbyn is right. Labour must force a general election to unite Leavers and Remainers against austerity

A short-sighted focus on Brexit as a political process will do nothing to resolve the injustices at the heart of British society. The party must now use all its energy to campaign across the country for a vote on Tory rule

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/corbyn-brexit-eu-elections-labour-party-general-election-a8933501.html

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

Embracing Remain will help Labour but it still has the electoral albatross of Corbyn himself.

His vascilation over Brexit will make him an unlikely and unconvincing voice for Remain.

on top of that, he is monumentally unpopular. 4 to 1 negatives in recent polling, incredibly even worse than Theresa May.

and for good reason. He is seen as dogmatic, out of touch, inarticulate, unprincipled in wavering on Brexit and confronting anti- semitism, controlled by a tight clique, unqualified, incompetent.

he also just turned 70. He should step aside for the good of his party.

I am sure you agree, don’t you Ken and Josh.

There's no significant amount of anti-Semitism to confront within Labour, and fighting that bigotry NEVER has to mean restricting what can be said about the Israeli government.  

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Corbyn is right. Labour must force a general election to unite Leavers and Remainers against austerity

A short-sighted focus on Brexit as a political process will do nothing to resolve the injustices at the heart of British society. The party must now use all its energy to campaign across the country for a vote on Tory rule

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/corbyn-brexit-eu-elections-labour-party-general-election-a8933501.html

And in posting that, you've just posted a link that contradicts every post you've made in the last three weeks on the UK. For the first time, I have to join those who ask:  do you even read the articles you link to?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

It's still hard to make an argument that any non-Tory policies are even possible in the EU.  And it can't be denied that the only reason the Blairites wouldn't let the EU issue go and invented the "People's Vote" canard was to use it to attack Corbyn and his supporters.  

 

JKR

I think the strong support within Labour for a “People’s Vote” is primarily due to the majority of Labour voters wanting to remain in the EU. My guess is that at least 2/3rds of Labour voters are “Remainers.”

NorthReport

Agreed JKR

-------------------

Remainers won these elections – and they’d win a second Brexit referendum

Why do leavers so resist another ballot? The real ‘betrayal’ of democracy would be Brexit without renewed popular consent

Remainers won this European election and they would win a referendum too: why else do leavers resist the minor inconvenience of another ballot with such ferocity? The real “betrayal” of democracy would be any move towards Brexit without popular consent. Every media interviewer should challenge every Tory leadership candidate with the dishonesty of imposing their Brexit on what is now a remain nation.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/28/remainers-eu-elections-second-brexit-referendum

Labour party pushed to ballot members on second EU referendum

-----------------

People’s vote activists say chance of electoral success will lessen if party fails to commit to public poll on Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/28/labour-party-pushed-to-ballot-members-on-second-eu-referendum

NorthReport

UK and territories are 'greatest enabler' of tax avoidance, study says

UK’s ‘tax haven network’ ranked among top 10 in corporate tax haven index

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/28/uk-and-territories-are-greatest-enabler-of-tax-avoidance-study-says

NorthReport

John Bercow defies Eurosceptics with vow to stay on as Speaker

Exclusive: move likely to anger hardliners who fear Bercow wants to stop no-deal Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/28/john-bercow-reveals-plans-stay-commons-speaker

NDPP

"Just think, in ALL future elections, Tories will be able to say 'Labour are a party who don't accept democratic results, they are not a democratic party. Even when we thought the people were wrong we tried to implement their decision regardless.' Good job Labour!

https://twitter.com/labourleave/status/1133312610336743424

 

'They Work For The Global 1%'

https://twitter.com/alexsmith1062/status/1133488929452302337

"The moment it ended was when Jeremy and Len blocked Open Selection last September. When it comes to the crunch, they sided with the anti-working class Blairites."

 

NorthReport

Shutting down off-shore tax havens and implementing a 10% inheritance tax would do wonders not only in the UK but everywhere

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/29/britain-existential-crises-beyond-brexit

NorthReport

The court case may not amount to anything, but his comments about business may dampen enthusiasm for his leadership aspirations amongst the Conservatives  

Boris Johnson must go on trial for 'lying and misleading' in Brexit campaign, judge orders

Judge summonses MP to court after throwing out arguments that allegations are ‘vexatious’ attempt to undermine Brexit

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/boris-johnson-trial-brexit-court-lying-prosecution-nhs-vote-leave-a8934451.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-trial-court-brexit-bus-nhs-lie-misconduct-a8934566.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/29/matt-hancock-lays-into-boris-johnson-over-brexit-business-f-word-tirade

nicky
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

If they did what you wanted and put somebody in who was part of the Blair era, every Labour vote under 40 would vanish.  Labour can't get the votes of the young if it has a leader who treats left activists like scum, abstained on May's  benefit cuts like Harriet Harman wanted-which was the same thing as supporting those cuts-and still thinks the Iraq War was right.  

Aristotleded24

Latest poll has the Liberal Democrats beating the Brexit Party by 2 points, with Labour and the Conservatives tied for third place.

nicky

Ken, those under 40s you always go on about have already abandoned Corbyn.

He has driven labour down to 18% in the poll A24 references.

The young are the strongest Remain demographic and feel betrayed by Corbyn's inherence on Brexit.

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
The young are the strongest Remain demographic and feel betrayed by Corbyn's inherence on Brexit.

You're absolutely correct nicky. The only issue in Britain that matters in the United Kingdom right now is Brexit! All this other stuff is trivial. Rampant income inequality? Dangerous climate change? Poverty? People living paycheque to paycheque? Cuts to vital services including the NHS? Environmental pollution? Homelessness? Lack of mental health services? Rising extremism and hate? No, none of that matters! The only thing that matters is that we stop Brexit! Once we stop Brexit, all of our problems will be solved, and it will be rainbows and unicorns and ponies for everyone!

You do know that the previous Labour government supported the Iraq war, right? Why is that not worth abandoning the Labour Party over, but it's worth abandoning the Labour Party over Brexit? Do you know how many people died in the Iraq war alone? What about the lives at risk from the other things I've mentioned? How many people died from Brexit?

And your claim that the under 40 crowd is that concerned about Brexit? If that's your primary concern, then you are living a very fortunate and comfortable existence. Maybe those are the only under-40s that the media in the UK ever listens to. There are a great many more who are struggling just to put food on the table. Brexit or know, foreign travel is a pipe dream to these people. If you've just lost your housing because you couldn't afford the rent, why would you even care about Brexit? It's nice that people like you have never really had to struggle financially for anything. Those of us who have actually struggled financially in life see things differently.

Lastly, why are you relying primarily on MSM articles to back up your opinions? You've been with this community long enough to know that the MSM is not neutral, that it is owned by interests not on the side of the people, and that they present a distorted view of reality. Remember when almost every major Canadian media outlet was cheering for Canada to become involved in the Iraq war in 2003?

JKR

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Latest poll has the Liberal Democrats beating the Brexit Party by 2 points, with Labour and the Conservatives tied for third place.

I can’t remember seeing such volatility in political opinion polls! I think there is now a lot of pressure on both the Conservatives and Labour to get Brexit behind them with the LD’s and Brexit Party surging ahead in the polls. If Brexit isn’t determined soon, UK politics could be in for a seismic shift, even bigger than the one the UK experienced due to World War 1. I think moderate Conservatives and Labour moderates should agree on some sort of soft Brexit and put it to a referendum where politicians from both parties are free to back either side in the referendum.

NorthReport

Hopefully the people in the UK somehow will soon put a stop to this insanity 

The Brexit disaster could destroy the United Kingdom

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/theweek.com/articles-amp/828452/brexit-disaster-could-destroy-united-kingdom

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Latest poll has the Liberal Democrats beating the Brexit Party by 2 points, with Labour and the Conservatives tied for third place.

Which is sickening, because the 2010-2015 coalition proves there are no longer any meaningful differences between the LibDems and the Tories.

Its enough that Corbyn's already said what he's said about the referendum.  He can't back it all out without ending the party and everyone knows it.  For the love of all that's decent, the matter needs to be left at that.

If you end up with the UK in the EU and the Tories still in power, there's no hope for anything progressive ever happening again in the UK.

josh

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Latest poll has the Liberal Democrats beating the Brexit Party by 2 points, with Labour and the Conservatives tied for third place.

YouGov, which always has the worst numbers for Labour.  But likely that apparent support for a second referendum has hurt them,

josh

NorthReport wrote:

Hopefully the people in the UK somehow will soon put a stop to this insanity 

The Brexit disaster could destroy the United Kingdom

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/theweek.com/articles-amp/828452/brexit-disaster-could-destroy-united-kingdom

The insanity is that it’s almost 3 years and the people’s vote has not become reality.  

nicky

Thanks Aristotle for your comments.

in focusing on the younger voters I was respondinding to Ken’s startling claim that no one under 40 would ever vote Labour again if Corbyn were replaced.

when I link articles from the MSM I recognize that in general it is hostile to Labour. But particular criticisms of Corbyn cannot be dismissed simply because they appear in such lickspittle sycophants of the establishment as The Guardian, TheNew Statesman or Labour List, the publications I have most regularly linked. 

The articles should surely be considered on their merits and not discounted simply because of the publications which carry them.

That being said, there surely is a critical mass of opinion, both journalistic and popular that Corbyn’s leadership has been disasterous for Labour.

under him the Labour Party is facing an existential crisis. Last week it lost TWO THIRDs of the vote percentage it got in 2017. The Latest You Guv has it in third place with 19% for the general election.

yet the ostriches pretend Corbyn bears no responsibility for this.

80% of Labour MPs, people who work with Corbyn day by day and over decades, voted no confidence in Corbyn. It is one thing to discount the MPM, another thing to ignore what these MPs are saying.

the ostriches will keep claiming they are all evil Blairites, clotsetTories, Zionists, Trumpian reactionaries or whatever convenient slur comes to mind, rather than consider their concerns.

perhaps it is possible that they simply have the best interests of the  Labour Party at heart.

incidentally:

http://www.politicalbetting.com/

 

 

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
80% of Labour MPs, people who work with Corbyn day by day and over decades, voted no confidence in Corbyn. It is one thing to discount the MPM, another thing to ignore what these MPs are saying.

How many of these MPs know what it's like to look at someone holding a cardboard sign on a street corner and think that might be a viable source of income? Most MPs of all parties these days are spineless immoral parasites who are acting for their own power and advancing their careers, and care nothing for what is actually happening in the daily lives of average people. But to illustrate the point further about how elected politicians don't know what they are talking about, what percentage of MPs backed Jack Layton in 2002-2003? What percentage of MPs openly called for Mulcair to be replaced following the 2015 debacle for the NDP? What percentage of NDP MLAs in Manitoba backed Greg Selinger for leadership?

And the reason that the British press is so on Brexit is that it serves to distract from the actual issues at hand. I'm happy that your own personal life has turned out so great and comfortable that you've never really struggled for anything and that you have the luxury to focus on trivial issues like Brexit. Many of the rest of us aren't so lucky.

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
The articles should surely be considered on their merits and not discounted simply because of the publications which carry them.

I'll remember this quote next time you dismiss an article praising the Liberals or bashing the NDP simply because it was written by someone at the CBC.

nicky

“Next time”?

when was the “last time”? I don’t remember this but I may be wrong.

that being said, unlike Aristotle apparently, I do prefer the Guardian to the CBC.

josh

I hear The Guardian is changing its name to The EU Guardain. 

NorthReport
NorthReport
josh

The failure to implement the 2016 vote has given oxygen to a party that otherwise wouldn't even be in existence.  

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Jonathan Pie's latest commentary on the EU election and Brexit.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I'm happy that your own personal life has turned out so great and comfortable that you've never really struggled for anything and that you have the luxury to focus on trivial issues like Brexit. Many of the rest of us aren't so lucky.

Who is the "us" you refer to?

NDPP

There's nothing trivial about a move by British grassroots citizens to free themselves from a neoliberal, supranational entity that has devastated their communities. There is nothing superficial about sovereignty and self-determination, despite its abandonment as an issue by many Canadian 'progressives.'

 

Latest Frenzy of Fratricide in the Labour Party

https://twitter.com/adamgarriereal/status/1134474749961297921

"Labour are busy suspending themselves from their own party while the lifeless Tories are in danger of being captained by a war monger who consoles himself by talking to the flowers about how great the EU is. Is it any wonder the bookies have Brexit Party trending?"

 

"It takes Tony Benn 10 seconds to sum up why we shouldn't be part of the EU." (and vid)

https://twitter.com/Centrist101/status/1134052817222733824

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