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Slumberjack

Bribery can't be too cheap these days.  There's literally thousands of hard luck stories that potentially contain a few that could be emphasized over the others.  When random selection simply won't do and you need to zero in on the specific, that kind of thing takes money.  This is why western protest movements receive mostly unfavourable coverage if at all.  Money and ideology tends to be heavily stacked against positive depictions.

Fidel

Ken I didn't think you were as naive. I thought you were old enough to remember the cold war and what a propaganda war it was for several decades. Your country has been meddling in Russian affairs since turn of the last century.

Tony Cartalucci wrote:
 "Pussy Riot's" support campaign is spearheaded by Oksana Chelysheva of the US State Department-funded "Russian-Chechen Friendship Society," a clearing house for Chechen terrorist propaganda. Along with US State Department-subsidized Alexey Navalny and the West's media outlets on their side, the hooligan anti-establishment "punk rockers" now on trial in Moscow have a decidedly "establishment" backing.

 

onlinediscountanvils

Fidel wrote:

What Pussy Riot did would be considered a hate crime in the west.

That's ridiculous.

 

Fidel wrote:

Imagine them running into a mosque or synagogue and doing the same.

More than 2/3 of Russians consider themselves Russian Orthodox, and the church enjoys a cozy relationship with the president. That's where your analogy falls apart.

Slumberjack

I think the analogy holds up.  If this were a Mormon temple in the USA right now and it was Romney being denounced, they'd likely have the Secret Service interrogating them at an undisclosed location to ascertain whatever threat they may pose to the presidential candidate.  If this were done in the lobby at Goldman Sachs, they're likely to have been whacked silly with police batons.

Fidel

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

Fidel wrote:

What Pussy Riot did would be considered a hate crime in the west.

That's ridiculous.

I dare you and two friends to run naked through a packed synagogue screaming obscenities. And before you try that one, do the same on Parliament Hill or as close as you are able to approach the White House in these post 9/11 red scare times the same as Pussy Riot did without being arrested in Red Square previously.

Post video of your two separate Pussy Riot demos here on babble.

onlinediscountanvils wrote:
Fidel wrote:

Imagine them running into a mosque or synagogue and doing the same.

More than 2/3 of Russians consider themselves Russian Orthodox, and the church enjoys a cozy relationship with the president. That's where your analogy falls apart.

Okay, then, try the exact same stunt in a Catholic or Anglican Church downtown Ottawa, Warshington D.C., or even in front of the Pentagon and get back to us. Because we're dying to know if your theory is correct.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I'd be against anybody being prosecuted for that, either.

And for the love of god...TWO YEARS in a Russian prison for that?  Even the Orthodox Church itself wasn't asking for hard time for those women.

What they did was no different than what Peter Tatchell and his OutRage! group did in Anglican cathedrals in England, when you get right down to it.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I'd be against anybody being prosecuted for that, either.

And for the love of god...TWO YEARS in a Russian prison for that?  Even the Orthodox Church itself wasn't asking for hard time for those women.

What they did was no different than what Peter Tatchell and his OutRage! group did in Anglican cathedrals in England, when you get right down to it.

And since when are you so protective of organized religion, Fidel?  I thought you were a solid anti-clerical type.

Fidel

Ken Burch wrote:
And for the love of god...TWO YEARS in a Russian prison for that?  Even the Orthodox Church itself wasn't asking for hard time for those women.

Putin already said he wishes leniency for Pussy Rioters. But as Paul Craig Roberts said about it, the US State Dept.-funded "NGO's" will likely keep the pressure on in betraying their Russian dupes. The U.S. "ambassador" in Havana betrayed Cuban dissidents similarly back in '03 after deliberately making it obvious which foreign government was funding sedition in Havana at the time. 

Paul Craig Roberts wrote:
I am advised that after six months, Putin will see that the women are released.  But, of course, that would not serve the propaganda of the Amerikan Empire.  The instructions to the Washington-financed fifth column in Russia will be to make any government leniency for Pussy Riot impossible.  
Washington-organized protests, riots, property damage, assaults on state and religious images by Washington’s Russian dupes will make it impossible for Putin to stand up to nationalist opinion and commute the sentences of the Pussy Riot women.

These young and inexperienced women are being used, Ken. They are being used to defame Putin and Russia for not validating the USA's ticket to launch a blitzkrieg and this time over Syria. That's why you are reading about this in corporate-sponsored newz rags.

onlinediscountanvils

Slumberjack wrote:

If this were a Mormon temple in the USA right now and it was Romney being denounced, they'd likely have the Secret Service interrogating them at an undisclosed location to ascertain whatever threat they may pose to the presidential candidate.

No doubt, but my point was about the suggestion that this would be seen as a 'hate crime'. Do you think Latter-Day Saints are the dominant culture of the US? I know you know this isn't even remotely close to being true, as one of the biggest knocks against Romney during the primaries was that he would never be accepted by a good chunk of the Republican base, because evangelical protestants view the LDS church as a cult.

Slumberjack

Yeah I don't know if hate crime is the right designation here.  It seems that an awful lot has to occur in the US before this term is invoked.

Slumberjack

Fidel wrote:
I dare you and two friends to run naked through a packed synagogue screaming obscenities.

A note of caution.  If you've never personally been to one, how would you know if you wouldn't be getting in just slightly ahead of the program, only to have whatever intended bad taste being taken completely out of context.

NDPP

"NDP MP and Foreign Affairs Critic Paul Dewar encouraged the government to intervene in the case on humanitarian grounds...and a spokesman for John Baird said 'the promotion of Canadian values, including freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law, features prominently with our ongoing dialogue with the Russian authorities.." CBC

"Shit, Shit, the lord is Shit!" - this really MUST be important...Government and loyal opposition stand on guard for thee and bad punk music. AND Madonna!  Oh well, at least there'll be an easy, cheap and dirty costume for halloween out of it... Undecided

 

Hipster Runoff: Musically Speaking, Is Pussy Riot the Worst and Dumbest Band in the World? (and vid) *Warning naked Pussy Riot members*

http://www.hipsterrunoff.com/tag/pussy-riot

"This music is so bad. So, so bad. Am I really going to have to listen to this music in two years...?"

 

The Man Married to Pussy Riot

http://nymag.com/thecut/2012/08/man-married-to-pussy-riot.html

"Media attention has blown the girls up to the size of Russia's government,' said Pyotr Verzilov.."

 

NDPP

 Maybe a PR performance is in order here too...

http://rabble.ca/comment/1360126#comment-1360126

NDPP

Why Pussy Riot Is Big in America

http://www.vulture.com/2012/08/why-pussy-riot-is-big-in-america-but-not-...

"But Not Russia"

howeird beale

Fidel wrote:

These young and inexperienced women are being used, Ken.

Of course! They're young women. They can't have agency, they must be being acted upon. They haven't a thought in their pretty little heads.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

self-delete.  dupe post.

onlinediscountanvils

NDPP wrote:

http://www.hipsterrunoff.com/tag/pussy-riot

"This music is so bad. So, so bad. Am I really going to have to listen to this music in two years...?"

 

[sarcasm]Awesome. A blogger's contrived online persona thinks their music is bad. I'm now 95% convinced that these silly girls are completely silly and had no business meddling with the important affairs of important men. I'm just waiting for the new season of South Park so I can get Eric Cartman's take before I commit to that final 5%. Undecided [/sarcasm]

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

This has become a horribly sexist thread.  I really, really doubt that anyone would be talking about Pussy Riot in the terms that have been used about them here or in the links if they were an all-male group called Pricky Riot.

Look, I'm glad Putin opposed an outside attack on Syria...but he could do that without pulling all this authoritarian shit.  And if the U.S. or the CIA were backing Pussy Riot, why would THEY have had the group do a protest that alienated the Orthodox Church, the spiritual base of right-wing Russian Nationalism?  Wouldn't the spymasters have had PR do something that would have won the support of the Orthodox hierarchy?

Putin is not an anti-imperialist, folks.  He's just another Great Russian Nationalist, and those people are always fascist, they are always the enemy of workers, women, the poor and peace.

And it doesn't matter whether PR are a good band or not.  That's beside the point.  They did what they did because they don't like the police state Putin is building.  Russia doesn't need a poice state.  Nor does any other country.  And it's never served the cause of global revolution to depend dictatorship or make fatuous remarks about the need to break eggs.

howeird beale

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

NDPP wrote:

http://www.hipsterrunoff.com/tag/pussy-riot

"This music is so bad. So, so bad. Am I really going to have to listen to this music in two years...?"

 

Awesome. A blogger's contrived online persona thinks their music is bad. I'm now 95% convinced that these silly girls are completely silly and had no business meddling with the important affairs of important men. I'm just waiting for the new season of South Park so I can get Eric Cartman's take before I commit to that final 5%. Undecided

I dunno. I watched a bit of the video. It's bizarre but strangely exhilarating. I think they know exactly what they're doing. Running into a church to bring about the wrath of the state seems like pretty time-honoured radical action to me.

I'm reminded of CRASS' symbol of a double headed snake (The State) wrapped around a cross like a caduceus.

The video reminds me of some of CRASS' 'crazy' 'lousy' music which I love:

CRASS: (sung by Eve Libertine) ASYLUM wrote:

I am no feeble Christ, not me.
He hangs in glib delight upon his cross. Upon his cross.
Above my body. Lowly me.
Christ forgive, forgive. Holy he, he holy, he holy.
Shit he forgives. Forgive, forgive. I, I, Me, I.
I vomit for you, Jesu. Christi-Christus.
Puke upon your papal throne.
Wrapped you are in the bloody shroud of churlish suicide.
Wrapped I am in the bloody cloud of hellish genocide.
Petulant child.
I have suffered for you, where you have never known me.
I too must die. Will you be shadowed in the arrogance of my death?
Your valley truth? What lights pass those pious heights?
What passing bells for these in their trucks?
For you Lord, you are the flag-bearer of these nations,
one against the other, that die in the mud.
No piety, no deity. Is that your forgiveness?
Saint, martyr, goat, billy. Forgive?
Shit he forgives.
He hangs upon his cross in self-righteous judgment,
hangs in crucified delight, nailed to the extent of his vision.
His cross, his manhood, his violence, guilt, sin.
He would nail my body upon his cross,
as if I might have waited for him in the garden,
as if I might have perfumed his body, washed those bloody feet?
This woman that he seeks, suicide visionary, death reveller,
rape, rapist, grave-digger, earth-mover, life-fucker. Jesu.
You scooped the pits of Auschwitz.
The soil of Treblinka is rich in your guilt,
the sorrow of your tradition,
your stupid humility is the crown of thorn we all must wear.
For you? Ha. Master? Master of gore.
Enigma.
Stigma.
Stigmata.
Errata.
Eraser.
The cross is the mast of our oppression.
You fly their vain flag. You carry it.
Wear it on your back Lord. Your back.
Enola is your gaiety.
Suffer little children, suffer in that horror.
Hiro-horror, horror-hiro, hiro-shima, shima-hiro,
hiro-shima, hiro-shima, Hiroshima, Hiroshima.
The bodies are your delight.
The incandescent flame is the spirit of it.
They come to you Jesu, to you.
The nails are the only trinity.
Hold them in your corpsey gracelessness.
The image that I have had to suffer.
These nails at my temple.
The cross is the virgin body of womanhood that you defile.
In your guilt, you turn your back, nailed to that body.
Lamearse Jesus calls me sister! There are no words for my contempt!
Every woman is a cross in his filthy theology!
He turns his back on me in his fear.
His vain delight is the pain I bear.
Alone he hangs, his choice, his choice.
Alone, alone, his voice, his voice.
He shares nothing, this Christ; sterile, impotent, fuck-love prophet of death.
He is the ultimate pornography. He! He!
Hear us, Jesus!
You sigh alone in your cock fear!
You lie alone in your cunt fear!
You cry alone in your woman fear!
You die alone in your man fear!
Alone Jesu, alone, in your cock fear, cunt fear, woman fear, man fear.
Warfare, warfare, warfare, warfare, warfare!

JESUS DIED FOR HIS OWN SINS. NOT MINE.

Fidel

howeird beale wrote:

Fidel wrote:

These young and inexperienced women are being used, Ken.

Of course! They're young women. They can't have agency, they must be being acted upon. They haven't a thought in their pretty little heads.

Yes, and The West's hypocrisy over Pussy Riot is breathtaking Our courts now jail at the drop of a headline – for stealing water or abuse sent on Twitter. So who are we to condemn Russia? (The Guardian)

Simon Jenkins wrote:
Artists can look after their own. For the British and US governments to get on high horses about Russian sentencing is hypocrisy. America and Britain damned the "disproportionate" Pussy Riot terms. In America's case this was from a nation that jails drug offenders for 20, 30 or 40 years, holds terrorism "suspects" incommunicado indefinitely and imprisons for life even trivial "three strikes" offenders. Last week alone a US military court declared that reporting the Guantánamo Bay trial ofKhalid Sheikh Mohammed would be censored. Any mention of his torture in prison was banned as "reasonably expected to damage national security". This has no apparent connection to proportionate punishment or freedom of speech.

Torture is illegal, just ask whistleblower Bradley Manning. Oh wait? We CAN'T because the military regime ordered Manning locked-up in an American gulag!

howeird beale

Agreed, Ken. Here's another charming link.

NDPP wrote:

Why Pussy Riot Is Big in America

http://www.vulture.com/2012/08/why-pussy-riot-is-big-in-america-but-not-...

"But Not Russia"

vulture.com wrote:

dresses and tights give the members matching silhouettes — the same shape as the internationally recognized signage pictogram for “women.”

Or maybe they have women's silhouettes because....... they're women?

Way to go.

Nice link.

Again.

 

NDPP

Pussy Riot: Whose Freedom, Whose Riot?

http://radicalhub.com/2012/08/20/pussy-riot-whose-freedom-whose-riot/

"For our sisters, for all women, we need to say out loud that this is not feminism."

I agree.

howeird beale

howeird beale wrote:

Fidel wrote:

These young and inexperienced women are being used, Ken.

Of course! They're young women. They can't have agency, they must be being acted upon. They haven't a thought in their pretty little heads.

Fidel

And U.S. Conservatives like Janice Shaw Crouse are not very complimentary of Pussy Riot, either.

JSC wrote:
The media — both in Russia and in the U.S. — ignores the religious bigotry directed at Christianity and, instead, jumps to the defense of anyone who shows intolerance towards the church. It is apparent from the closing statements of the three Russian feminists on trial that they are not sorry for their actions and, in fact, view themselves as the victims, not the Christians that they denigrated. The punk rock group entered the sanctuary with the intent to insult Christians, and when they were held accountable, they claimed that it was someone else’s fault.

The west got what it wanted in Russia - a new base of conservatism as it was born in the deep U.S. south - and it's based on religious revivalism and bigotry similarly. Why are many of them whining about it now?

NDPP

Crosses Chopped Down: 'Anti-Church Hysteria' Spreads Across Russia

http://rt.com/news/cross-arkhangelsk-564

"...The Arkhangelsk cross was erected in memory of the victims of political repressions, said a local priest, Hegumen Feodosy..."

howeird beale

NDPP wrote:

Crosses Chopped Down: 'Anti-Church Hysteria' Spreads Across Russia

http://rt.com/news/cross-arkhangelsk-564

"...The Arkhangelsk cross was erected in memory of the victims of political repressions, said a local priest, Hegumen Feodosy..."

By political repressions they mean when Stalin systematically starved 7 Million Ukrainians to death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Undecided That's like calling the Holocaust a "transport and housing issue."

Interesting link within NDPP's Vulture link above. I wont link to it directly because VICE prints some pretty vile stuff. On the other hand they did interview the women from PR directly:

Pussy Riot wrote:

Serafima: Right, and at that point we realized that this country needs a militant, punk-feminist, street band that will rip through Moscow's streets and squares, mobilize public energy against the evil crooks of the Putinist junta and enrich the Russian cultural and political opposition with themes that are important to us: gender and LGBT rights, problems of masculine conformity, absence of a daring political message on the musical and art scenes, and the domination of males in all areas of public discourse. 

VICE: Why "Pussy Riot"?
Garadzha: A female sex organ, which is supposed to be receiving and shapeless, suddenly starts a radical rebellion against the cultural order, which tries to constantly define it and show its appropriate place. Sexists have certain ideas about how a woman should behave, and Putin, by the way, also has a couple thoughts on how Russians should live. Fighting against all that—that's Pussy Riot.

-edit-

Who are your major feminist influences?
Serafima: In feminist theory that would be De Beauvoir with the Second Sex, Dvorkin, Pankhurst with her brave suffragist actions, Firestone and her crazy reproduction theories, Millett, Braidotti's nomadic thought, Judith Butler's Artful Parody.

-edit-

How do you see Russia under a new Putin-led government?
Serafima: How did you see Libya under Gaddafi? How do you see North Korea under Kim Jong-un, the 28-year-old "Brilliant comrade"? To us, Russia under Putin, aka "the National Leader," is no different.

Tyurya: As a third-world dictatorship with all its nice and classy features: Horrible economy based on natural resources, unbelievable levels of corruption, absence of independent courts, and a dysfunctional political system. And under Putin we are up for another decade of brutal sexism and conformism as official government policies.

6079_Smith_W

I think I posted a link upthread of a fellow stripping down naked in an airport Homeland Security control zone.

The judge upheld his right to free speech. One example, but a good one. And again, one of the classic examples of religous ridicule in the States - The SImpsons - runs on its most right-wing network.

And regarding PR being funded by the CIA, how about showing us the actual money, rather than resorting to the stale ond religious argument of "you can't prove it didn't happen"?

Seems to me the best attempt so far couldn't come up with anything other than racist arguments about them associating with Jewish people, and praises of the Russian Orthodox Church as a bastion of progressive thought.

NDPP

Two Wanted Pussy Riot Members Flee Russia to Recruit Foreign Feminists

http://rt.com/news/pussy-riot-member-leave-russia-597/

"We want to disappoint Kremlin bastards; 2 women have left the country because of the dangers, but there are at least 12 members of Pussy riot who remain in Russia,' said a statement on the group's Twitter account.."

more punk'd gulls, ...perhaps they can do a 'greatest hits' tour and reprise their 'fuck for the teddy bear' or 'how to snatch a chicken' numbers for all the faux 'feminists' who have bought this misogynistic rubbish. With US State Department backing and support from Minister Baird and Paul Dewar  - they're sure to be a hit with all truly hipster Canucklheads..

Fidel

6079_Smith_W wrote:

And regarding PR being funded by the CIA, how about showing us the actual money, rather than resorting to the stale ond religious argument of "you can't prove it didn't happen"?

The U.S. Military Government is interfering in Russia's political affairs directly. Pussy Riot's" support campaign is organized by Oksana Chelysheva of the US State Department-funded "Russian-Chechen Friendship Society." And the NED openly admits to supporting Pussy Riot. Pay attention.

The CIA earned a bad name in the 1970's with assassinations of foreign leaders and overthrowing governments in Latin America and beyond. Now they mostly do drug-running, passing weapons to Al Qa'eda, and training Al Qa'eda terrorists to murder Russians, Chechens, Libyans, Syrians, American and British soldiers now and again etc. Same old same-old. But with a difference.

howeird beale

NDPP wrote:

Two Wanted Pussy Riot Members Flee Russia to Recruit Foreign Feminists

http://rt.com/news/pussy-riot-member-leave-russia-597/

"We want to disappoint Kremlin bastards; 2 women have left the country because of the dangers, but there are at least 12 members of Pussy riot who remain in Russia,' said a statement on the group's Twitter account.."

more punk'd gulls, ...perhaps they can do a 'greatest hits' tour and reprise their 'fuck for the teddy bear' or 'how to snatch a chicken' numbers for all the faux 'feminists' who have bought this misogynistic rubbish. With US State Department backing and support from Minister Baird and Paul Dewar  - they're sure to be a hit with all truly hipster Canucklheads..

Yeah, if we want the real feminists we should look to the Russian State and Legal system whose prosecutor

described feminism as a “mortal sin” and brought forth a pious old lady to testify that the very word was an obscenity when uttered in a church.

Or the church:

The corruption of the Church, its vast wealth, its close ties to the State - Kirill, Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Patriarch, is a former KGB officer just like Putin - all of this is well known, but had never been a subject of public debate. "There is a reason why the Pussy Riot members chose Christ the Saviour Cathedral,” says Ovechenko. Moscow’s largest church, demolished by Stalin but rebuilt in the post-Soviet era, is viewed almost like a government ministry building by the public. “I’m religious, the Orthodox religion is part of my culture, but this protest was not an attack on my faith,” says Ovechenko. Like many of her friends, she says, she sees the protest as a criticism of church leaders, who are seen as being avaricious and a part of the country's political corruption.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/valeria-costa-kostritsky/is-feminism-i...

 

Fidel

howeird beale wrote:

Or the church:

The corruption of the Church, its vast wealth, its close ties to the State - Kirill, Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Patriarch, is a former KGB officer just like Putin - all of this is well known, but had never been a subject of public debate.

 Wow that's almost as bad as George Bush Senior, NAZI sympathizer Prescott Bush's son and former head of the CIA slithering in to the White House job in 1989. And then it was a dynasty of Bush Nazis when Prescott's grandson dubya lost the vote count in 2000. Next thing they know the luftwaffe is bombing desperately poor countries on the edge of Eastern Europe and Afghanistan while the army goosestepped into Iraq.

And this is all because Putin refused to rubberstamp the USSA's request for blitzkrieg over Syria.

Free whistleblower Bradley Manning from the gulags!

howeird beale

Fidel wrote:

 NAZI sympathizer Prescott Bush

Prescott Bush wasn't a nazi sympathizer. He was a nazi collaborator, which is much worse. It's why his bank was seized by the US:

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

Its why the Canadian government seized its assets here:

n yet another attempt to deceive the governments of both the U.S. and Canada, Livense and his partners misreported the facts about the sale of a Canadian Nazi front enterprise, La Cooperative Catholique des Consommateurs de Combustible, which imported German coal into Canada via the web of Thyssen-controlled U.S. businesses.

“The Canadian authorities, however, were not taken in by this maneuver,” a U.S. government report states. The coal company was later seized by Canadian authorities.

http://www.nhgazette.com/the-bushnazi-stories/bushnazi-link-continued/

 

I don't minimize evil dogshit regardless of the connection

How 'bout you?

Fidel

howeird beale wrote:

Prescott Bush wasn't a nazi sympathizer. He was a nazi collaborator, which is much worse. It's why his bank was seized by the US:

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz

">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

 

That must have been late 1942 when the fascists realized the Russians had turned tables on the Nazis and would probably liberate Europe by themselves. And all U.S. corporations doing business with the Nazis in Germany were fully compensated by US taxpayers for damages to factories by allied bombing.

But then the OSS-CIA and Brits basically reconstructed Himmler's SS after the war to spy on and orchestrate terrorism against our WW II allies, the Russians and Eastern bloc nations. The Gladio Gang has been on about Russia for an eternity.

howeird beale wrote:
I don't minimize evil dogshit regardless of the connection

How 'bout you?

Putin is not my dog in the race. But in my opinion Russians suffered by neoliberal reforms enough during the catastroika years with U.S. and European help extended to Russian oligarchs. The west doesn't like Putin for his renationalisations of a few industries. They'd rather have Medvedev and the pro Atlantic Alliance stooges in the Duma and acquescing to the NATO spring agenda. That's why the US Government is funding "NGO's" in Russia along with funding the Russian opposition, which would be considered sedition in the USA and all western countries. 

6079_Smith_W

Fidel wrote:

The U.S. Military Government is interfering in Russia's political affairs directly. Pussy Riot's" support campaign is organized by Oksana Chelysheva of the US State Department-funded "Russian-Chechen Friendship Society." And the NED openly admits to supporting Pussy Riot. Pay attention.

What do you mean, "support campaign" you mean their roadies or their managers? If you just mean outside interests putting their own spin on this situation, big deal. That means nothing at all.

The Germans were all over the Indian Independence issue during the second world war, and they DID have agents on the ground. That doesn't make Gandhi a supporter of their war effort.

 

 

Fidel

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Fidel wrote:

The U.S. Military Government is interfering in Russia's political affairs directly. Pussy Riot's" support campaign is organized by Oksana Chelysheva of the US State Department-funded "Russian-Chechen Friendship Society." And the NED openly admits to supporting Pussy Riot. Pay attention.

What do you mean, "support campaign" you mean their roadies or their managers? If you just mean outside interests putting their own spin on this situation, big deal. That means nothing at all.

The Russian-Chechen Friendship Society is funded by the U.S. Military dictatorship to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars every year. 

Oksana Chelysheva is deputy director of the Russian-Chechen Friendship Society, a strange pro-extremist outfit which is funded by the NED. Chelysheva also has other extensive US government ties through her leadership roles in other NED and American oligarch George Soros-funded outfits like the Finnish-Russian Civic Forum and the EU-Russia Civil Society Forum.

If you were caught in America accepting money from a foreign government for the purpose of electioneering or writing anti-government literature, you'd be locked so far away in one of many American gulags they'd have to pump air to you. We'd prolly never hear from Winston Smith again we can be sure.

Winston Smith wrote:
The Germans were all over the Indian Independence issue during the second world war, and they DID have agents on the ground. That doesn't make Gandhi a supporter of their war effort.

Gandhi was a socialist for peaceful protest not a Nazi, and he certainly wasn't funded by the U.S. Government at any time before he was murdered. He didn't advocate diving into Churches and doing things that would net a jail term in many western countries. He didn't advocate flipping over police cars or lewd public acts involving naked bodies and stolen chickens to grab attention. Your comparison isn't a very good one, Smith.

6079_Smith_W

Fidel.... you haven't established anything. The fact that outside interests might exploit someone's protest for their own ends doesn't mean the support is resiprocal.

You are implying that these Russian artist groups have the same objectives, and are supported by the United States? Show me the money.

I saw the footage of the FEMEN protest against former president Timoshenko's trial (also involved lewd acts.... shame shame) in which they said ALL parties should have been on trial .

And regarding Gandhi, of course it is false; you are making an equivalent accusation, based on less evidence.

Sorry, but you will continut to hear from me so long as you continue to pass off unsubstantiated nonsense as fact.

 

howeird beale

A better comparison is that Hitler and Stalin both orchestrated ethnic genocides that resulted in the deaths of millions. And both Putin and his pet Patriarch belonged to the same secret police organization which orchestrated Stalin's crimes.

Fidel

6079_Smith_W wrote:

You are implying that these Russian artist groups have the same objectives, and are supported by the United States? Show me the money.

I showed you the money. And I showed you photos of Russia's political opposition lining up in front of the U.S. embassy in Moscow. 

Now you can show us that the NED and US Military Government is lying to the world when it openly confesses to funding and supporting anti-government groups in Russia. Your naked apologism for imperialist maneuvering against Russia won't get you very far with us I'm afraid.

Winston Smith wrote:
I saw the footage of the FEMEN protest against former president Timoshenko's trial (also involved lewd acts.... shame shame) in which they said ALL parties should have been on trial .

Yes only Russian politicians are corrupt. Ukrainian oligarchs are clean as a U.S. whistleblower sitting in an American gulag for telling the truth about the Military dictatorship.

Winston Smith wrote:
And regarding Gandhi, of course it is false; you are making an equivalent accusation, based on less evidence.

Sorry, but you will continut to hear from me so long as you continue to pass off unsubstantiated nonsense as fact.

I'm not sure what you were trying to say about Gandhi, but it sounded bizarre. Anyway you made no point, and I can award you no debating points for that. And needless to say I am unimpressed by your relentless apologism for imperialism and century-long US meddling in Russian affairs.

howeird beale

apologism??? EmbarassedLaughingSmileEmbarassed hoo boy that's rich comin' from you.

 

Fidel: "well, well, at least Putin's not Hitler!!"

gee. Deep insight.

Fidel

howeird beale wrote:

apologism??? EmbarassedLaughingSmileEmbarassed hoo boy that's rich comin' from you.

 

Fidel: "well, well, at least Putin's not Hitler!!"

gee. Deep insight.

You've directly quoted something I did not say. Where did you go to school? 

And this from a poster who suggests that Prescott Bush was the only Nazi sympathizer in America who was dealt with swiftly at the time. Not true. It wasn't until late 1942 and after tens of millions of Russians, Jews and other ethnics were slaughtered in Europe and Asia and Red Army looking good for victory in Russia and probable victory in Europe, too, that fascism began falling out of favour back in the U.S. The race to Berlin was on only after the Red Army turned the tables on the fascist invaders at Leningrad and Stalingrad. Bush and other American Nazi sypmathizers supported fascism early on.

Prescott Bush laundered Nazi money through a Dutch-based bank, we know.  And a parade of American fascists have sold weapons to the mullahs in Iran, ran guns to Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge in "democratic Kampuchea",  armed Contra terrorists who murdered women and children and bombed hospitals and schools,  traded guns for drugs, did business deals with Osama bin Laden. They reconstructed Himmler's SS after the war and later funded mujahideen terrorists in Central Asia. Today their freedom fighters trained to murder innocents and hijack planes are referred to as "Al Qa'eda."

And ol’ granpa Prescott was an early supporter of the Eugenics movement racial purity or American Eugenics movement well into the 1950s and decades after most groups in North America had abandoned the idea after Nazi horrors were revealed over a decade earlier.

Yes they traded with the enemy for many months after the act was signed. Other US corporationists continued doing business as usual inside Nazi Germany by special US Governmental approval while it was common knowledge the Nazis were liquidating European Jews and as those fleeing Nazi occupations in Europe were barred from emigrating to America all the while. 

We already know what happened in recent history, thank you very little. Anglo-American fascism and the ongoing Gladio terrorism carried over from the cold war era makes us want to throw up.

howeird beale

I cant be bothered to read all that gibberish, dude. I think anyone with a lick of sense, so... not you, knows I wasn't actually implying a real quote. I was mocking you. because your posts are dull-witted, repetitive and facile.

You make the same idiotic argument anytime one of your heroes is critiqued.

"You love Hitler! You love the CIA!"

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Fidel

Is it just me or do others find crypto-Nazi cheerleaders for the chickenhawk brigade tend to come out of the woodwork almost on cue whenever the corporate sponsored newz machine starts foaming at the mouth on the subject of Russia? 

howeird beale

Fidel wrote:

crypto-Nazi cheerleaders for the chickenhawk brigade tend to come out of the woodwork almost on cue

Woof woof, bark bark, Gladio, CIA, Hitler, woof woof woof

Making the same stunned references regardless of the topic isn't an argument. It's vacuous.

Also, don't call people nazis. It doesn't make you look any smarter, and you need all the help you can get.

Fidel

You have no argument other than to apologize for the chickenhawk brigade of neoNazis who will betray their Russian dupes by continuing to fund their seditious activities in Russia and dozens of other countries. The chickenhawks won't be satisfied until their Russian dupes are prosecuted to the full extent of the law and sent to prison for years and years. That's what this is about  - it has nothing to do with supporting freedom of speech or democracy in Russia. We all know that democracy is just a word they re-use and abuse in the land of trillion-dollar socialism for bankers and run by a military dictatorship sucking them dry for another trillion dollars a year. 

howeird beale

Fidel wrote:

You have no argument other than to apologize for the chickenhawk brigade of neoNazis

I thought I was an agent for the Mossad. that must be in another thread. So hard to keep straight.

I dont know in what Dungeons and Trots Wizard's Guide you heard that calling people nazis was an effective rhetorical trick, but back here on planet Earth its called Godwin's Law and it just makes you look like a pathetic dork.

howeird beale

Anyone else would get the gag.

You don't because there's something wrong with you.

Fidel

No, it wasn't me who called you names in another thread. That must have been someone else. Because if it was me I'd have called you some good ones.  Do you hear voices, too? Hey Howeird, the redcoats are coming. Pff!

onlinediscountanvils

Fidel wrote:

The chickenhawks won't be satisfied until their Russian dupes are prosecuted to the full extent of the law and sent to prison for years and years. That's what this is about

 

Wait... that's what this is about?! I thought you had been saying this was punishment for not jumping onboard against Syria. But no - just a clever scheme to send three young women to prison. You're funny, Fidel. You jump from one wild theory to the next. Sometimes it's Putin who's the innocent target of GLADIO's evil schemes. Then, with nary an explanation as to what happened to your previous theory, it's suddenly these young women who were the real target. Uncle Sam had to get these women behind bars. Why? Who knows? Who cares? The only thing we can say with any certainty is that's what their plan was all along.

howeird beale

Fidel wrote:

Do you hear voices, too?

Making fun of psychiatric issues now.

You're a real cool guy.

Fidel

Redcoats, Howeird.  They're under your bed and knocking at the front door. Don your tinfoil hat and run like a mad hatter for the hills.

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