War in Syria

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A_J

Fidel wrote:

Every other country makes Stinger equivalents of the shoulder launch or air-to-air type. That one looks like the same heat seeking variety but mounted on the tail wing of an aircraft. Details, details. 

So what you're saying is the missiles might not have actually come from the U.S. or the CIA at all? I mean, if "every other country" is making stinger knock-offs, why pin them on anyone in particular? Wink

 

But Bec's point was that the picture is of (I believe) the Sidewinder missile - an air-to-air missile with a range of some 30+ km.  A Stinger is man-portable and has a range of less than 5 km and is less than 1/5th the size/weight.

 

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Also the South would have still lost.

The Spanish Republicans lost too, despite being backed by an outside power (the Soviet Union) and foreign fighters - but we're supposed to ignore that, because the FSA are evil precisely because they are also (allegedly) backed by an outside power and foreign fighters.  And there has been a paucity of evidence for either.

 

Fidel

A_J wrote:

Fidel wrote:

Every other country makes Stinger equivalents of the shoulder launch or air-to-air type. That one looks like the same heat seeking variety but mounted on the tail wing of an aircraft. Details, details. 

So what you're saying is the missiles might not have actually come from the U.S. or the CIA at all? I mean, if "every other country" is making stinger knock-offs, why pin them on anyone in particular?

Syrian opposition fighters acquire Stinger missiles: sources

Quote:
The source said both Turkey and the United States are aware of the arms delivery.

The source, which asked not to be named, said “financing has probably come from Saudi Arabia, but the origin might be different.”

The U.S. Department of Defense declined to comment.

 

I'm guessing the heat-seeking missiles are most likely American-made and probably not supplied by either Russia, Iran, China or any other SCO member nation. And since the U.S. admitted to supplying Stinger missiles to Afghan warlords and mercenaries in 1980's Afghanistan, they are looking good for blame in this instance given the already established geopolitical posturing on the matter.

A_J wrote:
But Bec's point was that the picture is of (I believe) the Sidewinder missile - an air-to-air missile with a range of some 30+ km.  A Stinger is man-portable and has a range of less than 5 km and is less than 1/5th the size/weight.

So what?

 

A_J wrote:
Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Also the South would have still lost.

The Spanish Republicans lost too, despite being backed by an outside power (the Soviet Union) and foreign fighters - but we're supposed to ignore that, because the FSA are evil precisely because they are also (allegedly) backed by an outside power and foreign fighters.  And there has been a paucity of evidence for either.

Hitler, general motors, ford and studebaker delivered thousands of trucks and other vehicles to the fascists in Spain. And the luftwaffe was helpful in levelling Guernica. They say Hitler could not have invaded Europe without help from GM and Ford. Spanish fascists were on the receiving end, too. 

The point is that it is illegal to aid and abet terrorism in another country. But that's what the U.S. Government and its Gladio allies have done in numerous countries since the cold war era. They'd squawk like hell and consider it an act of war if other nations were to fund and arm the many right wing militias and anti-government groups in the U.S. and surrounding countries. U.S. political and social tensions might be a powder keg today for all anyone knows. All that's missing is a lit match.

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
Big difference wouldn't you say?

They are both heat-seeking missiles, which is all I suggested the two varieties have in common. And I was only taking a wild guess as to the one mounted on the tail wing. Turns out you proved it to be correct. Thnx. Wink

NDPP

UN Security Council Has No Authority to Support Revolution in Syria - Lavrov

http://rt.com/news/syrian-crisis-intervention-lavrov-109/

"The UN Security Council has no rights to support a revoution or foreign intervention in Syria, Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov warned. Any plan to withdraw government troops while fighting continues is untenable, and naive at best, he added..."

A_J

Bit of a mystery cropping-up in images and video from the conflict: strange dirt and shrapnel filled "barrel bombs" being employed by the government.

There are a few theories floating arond:

  • The government is running out of munitions and has to improvise;
  • False-flag IED's: drop improvised explosives willy-nilly and when they kill or injury civilians the Assad government can point to the work of "terrorists" which, no doubt, RT and the Iranian government/Press TV will eagerly repeat (and certain folks here will enthusiastically lap up);
  • They are testing an improvised delivery system for chemical weapons;
  • Simply balast for aircraft carrying an unbalanced weapon load.

 

On the topic of non-improvised explosives: more evidence of cluster bombs being used by the government.

DaveW

wisely, rebels targeting airports to diminish regime's ability to attack from the air:

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/la-revolte-syrienne/20120901.OBS0987/syrie-les-rebelles-multiplient-les-offensives.html#xtor=EPR-1-[Actu8h]-20120901

 Depuis quelques jours, les rebelles semblent concentrer leurs attaques contre les aéroports du pays, affirmant avoir détruit une dizaine d'hélicoptères et d'avions, afin de contrer la maîtrise du ciel de l'armée syrienne dont les bombardements font chaque jour des dizaines de victimes.

A Idleb, ils tiennent en partie l'aéroport d'Abou el-Zouhour, l'une des deux plus importantes bases aériennes de la province. Jeudi, les insurgés ont affirmé avoir abattu un avion de combat MiG peu après son décollage de cette base.

 

Fidel

Not-so Free Syrian Army committing war crimes Warning: Video shows POW's being murdered

[url=Al">http://www.globalresearch.ca/al-qaeda-and-natos-pan-arab-terrorist-blitz... Qaeda and NATO’s Pan-Arab Terrorist Blitzkrieg[/url]

Quote:
Western policy makers admit that NATO’s operations in Libya have played the primary role in emboldening Al Qaeda’s AQIM faction (Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb). The Fortune 500-funded Brookings Institution’s Bruce Riedel in his article, “The New Al Qaeda Menace,” admits that AQIM is now heavily armed thanks to NATO’s intervention in Libya, and that AQIM’s base in Mali, North Africa, serves as a staging ground for terrorist activities across the region. ...

Image: Libyan terrorist manning a tank during NATO’s 2011 overthrow of the Libyan government. The media expects the public to believe placard waving peaceful demonstrators had somehow, in just days, transitioned intotank driving, jet flying rebel forces – just like in Hollywood.

Quote:
LIFG terrorists promptly turned both east to Syria and west to Mali beyond their borders – a logistical matter they had perfected during their operations in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past decade. LIFG commander Abdul Hakim Belhaj, as early as November 2011, arrived on the Turkish-Syrian border to provide cash, weapons, and LIFG terrorist fighters, overseen by Western intelligence along with US funding and arms laundered through Gulf Cooperative Council (GCC) members such as Qatar and Saudi Arabia. Since then Libyan militants have been confirmed to be leading entire brigades of foreign fighters inside Syria.

All babblers opposed to Al CIA'duh terrorism say aye. We should push for a babble declaration of opposition to the U.S.-backed Al Qa'eda terrorism and all. All those opposed to U.S.-backed terrorism in the Middle East, Central Asia, North Africa etc say, count me in! Or even an aye-aye will do. Except for aye-aye, Uncle Sam, because our corrupt stooges in Ottawa do enough of that already.

Gonzaga

A_J, I find it difficult to believe, if you've been looking at the links posted on this thread, that you can maintain that there's "a paucity of evidence" of foreign fighters and foreign support for the FSA. The evidence has been reported in the New York Times, the Guardian, the Independent, and plenty of other mainstream sources, all of which are generally quite anti-Assad, not just on alternative media.

DaveW, I don't get this word "wisely." Are you still maintaining that the FSA and co. are the good guys? At the very least I thought this discussion would have put that idea to rest. You don't accept that this is Libya all over again?

howeird beale

It's a wise strategic move to disrupt the regimes airpower. It's pretty simple.

So, what? Assad's the "good guy" then?

As for the links, c'mon. Most of these links are a joke. Some 25 year old WASP dude on his webcam in Japan's what passes for a Syria expert on Iranian state TV?

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

This thing keeps morphing by the week and I doubt anybody is in any real control of all of it at any one time. More and more this is getting to be about religion and not politics. This is where Assad gets into deep trouble; his regimes association with a Shia minority sect of Islam makes him an easy target for Sunni extremists and any disgruntled Sunni Syrians. No doubt this will attract more and more outside fighters; especially on the Sunni side where the jihadist branch has been set up for years training and funneling fighters around the globe; most of it till late fighting the western forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. And while these outsiders make up some of the hardest fighting units of the resistance I don’t think they are the majority (of the resistance).

It would also seem the rebels have realised that holding ground near them or attacking military airfields, many of which are located near civilian airports (hence the report above), is an easy way to put pressure on the Syrian military's aircraft advantage. If you can't hit them in the air, hit them on the ground or when they are taking off or landing; a simple and crafty strategy. 

And yes Fidel we all know, according to you, it’s all the CIA’s doing.

contrarianna

From Israel's major daily Haaretz :

Quote:
Al-Qaida threatens Hezbollah over its support of the Syrian regime
....
A new ally has joined Israel in the struggle against Hezbollah. Al-Qaida recently published a harsh attack on Hezbollah, in which it calls on Shi’ites to leave the renounce the organization “if they do not wish to be the target of Al-Qaida attacks.”

.... Al-Qaida is a Sunni organization, and its leaders see Hezbollah’s rule in Lebanon and the minority Alawite rule in Syria as a reality that must be forever changed. Al-Majd does not hesitate to threaten all of Lebanon, should Hezbollah continue to support the Assad regime. “Hezbollah’s existence is a threat to Lebanon’s security and tourism industry,” he said, hinting that his organization would not think twice before planning an attack on tourists in Lebanon, should the state continue to strengthen Hezbollah and its leaders....

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/al-qaida-threatens-hezbollah-ove...

NDPP

Taylor: Gadhafi Gone, But Another Monster Hatched  - by Scott Taylor

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/132478-taylor-gadhafi-gone-but-anot...

"The civil uprising in Syria is now entering its 18th month and the level of violence continues to escalate. While Western leaders voice concern for the safety of the Syrian people, they continue to furnish the Free Syrian Army rebels with increasingly sophisticated weaponry. In the oversimplified Western propaganda, Assad is portrayed as an evil despot who must be deposed by freedom loving, pro-democracy Syrian civil fighters...What is an entire Libyan brigade doing in Syria?..."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

contrarianna wrote:

From Israel's major daily Haaretz :

Quote:
Al-Qaida threatens Hezbollah over its support of the Syrian regime
....
A new ally has joined Israel in the struggle against Hezbollah. Al-Qaida recently published a harsh attack on Hezbollah, in which it calls on Shi’ites to leave the renounce the organization “if they do not wish to be the target of Al-Qaida attacks.”

.... Al-Qaida is a Sunni organization, and its leaders see Hezbollah’s rule in Lebanon and the minority Alawite rule in Syria as a reality that must be forever changed. Al-Majd does not hesitate to threaten all of Lebanon, should Hezbollah continue to support the Assad regime. “Hezbollah’s existence is a threat to Lebanon’s security and tourism industry,” he said, hinting that his organization would not think twice before planning an attack on tourists in Lebanon, should the state continue to strengthen Hezbollah and its leaders....

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/al-qaida-threatens-hezbollah-ove...

Not good.

It's getting ugly, more and more its getting to be about religion. Not all conflicts are two sided, some can grow to be three or four sided.

NDPP

Is The Syrian Crisis Being Leveraged to Weaken Hezbollah?  -  by Franklin Lamb

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/03/is-the-syrian-crisis-being-levera...

"One would be correct in imagining that life's no bowl of cherries for Hezbollah these days. Implementing the Feltman Project..""

 

Convenient Myths and Liberal Imperialism  -  by John Pilger

http://alterinfonews.blogspot.ca

"The liberal way to run the world: 'improve' or we'll kill you. Syria is an enduring project.."

contrarianna

NDPP wrote:

Taylor: Gadhafi Gone, But Another Monster Hatched  - by Scott Taylor

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/132478-taylor-gadhafi-gone-but-anot...

"The civil uprising in Syria is now entering its 18th month and the level of violence continues to escalate. While Western leaders voice concern for the safety of the Syrian people, they continue to furnish the Free Syrian Army rebels with increasingly sophisticated weaponry. In the oversimplified Western propaganda, Assad is portrayed as an evil despot who must be deposed by freedom loving, pro-democracy Syrian civil fighters...What is an entire Libyan brigade doing in Syria?..."

A MUST NOT READ for Babble's various al-Qaida and imperial apologists, (aka "humanitarian interventionists").

All Taylor's major assertions of fact are verifiable, yet in this thread there are
some whom still dishonestly deny the major role of foreign fighters in Syria, even though a minute's Google News search would bring up  an avalanche of major mainstream publications including Reuters, NYT, Haaretz, etc. which confirm otherwise.
 
The more sentient imperial apologists have moved on from the absurd denial of foreign fighters and terrorists in Syria, to an embrace of them, as Scott Taylor (and my previous post), indicates:

Quote:
....Assad’s claims had to be denounced as the delusional ravings of a hated dictator who cannot bring himself to believe that his own people have taken up arms against him.

Over the ensuing months, the portrayal of Assad as a demon has become so complete that even the reality of foreign Islamic fundamentalist in Syria is being hailed as positive.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I pretty much read everyones links here and I don't think anybody is apologizing for anything here, including people here who support, for the lack of a better word, the regime for one reason or another. No one I've seen here is saying there aren't outside fighters in Syria. No one here is saying there is not outside support for them. I’ve said there are foreign fighters in Syria and I've even said they are a part of some of the hardest fighting units in the rebel force. What part of that do you find false or misleading? Or are you just upset because I said it and you don’t think it should be said here (even though it’s true)? Are you attempting some kind of censorship?

Here’s one of those units right here… your link even mentions them so lets take a more detailed look at them.

The Syrian Rebels' Libyan Weapon

Yes that unit has Libyans and other Arabs in it, the commander is even Libyan, but there are also allot of Syrians in the unit as well.  

I've said or posted nothing intentionally false and just becouse you don't like it or disagree with it dosn't make it so. 

 

 

 

contrarianna

Though I frequently disagree with you, Bec, I wasn,t thinking of you with that post.
Apologetics is defending a position through argument, (though, your point is well taken if REASONED argument is meant).
The general position taken by the apologists for intervention, (in this thread and extending back through all the Syrian threads and into the Libyan threads) sometimes explicitly, and sometime with only baiting innuendo, is that if you take an anti-imperialist position, are against the massive involvement of the West, and their support for foreign jihadists in Syrian regime change, then you are an "Assad-lover". If you look again, even is this late thread, you will see several people maintaining the  notion of "precious little evidence" of foreign involvement.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

The situation in Syria is very complex, and I have not seen any recent articles with a solid position. Doesn't mean there are none out there, just that I havn't found any.

My fundamental position is that of support for the right of the Syrian people to self-determination. This includes opposition to foreign intervention. It does not however include support for Assad. Assad has carried out massacres against his own people. on a scale far greater than those committed by Gaddafi in Libya. This in my view disqualifies him from the support of those who support the twin concepts peace and justice.

The opposition to Assad is not a monolithic entity. It is fractured into different groups. There is a faction among the Syrian opposition which argued against the militarization of the struggle against Assad. This is the faction that I support. Those who wanted to oust Assad via mass deonstrations.

Among those who supported the militarization of the struggle, there is a division between those who support outside intervention, and those who do not. Those who have provided outside support are trying to control the outcome for their own gain. Add to this the fact that not all outside groups have the same interest in Syria. Qatar and Saudi Arabia likely do not favor the same outcome as the United States and other western imperialist powers.

There are many on the anit-imperialist left who argue that the popular uprising against Assad that began in March 2011 has been entirely subsumed by an armed conflict in which the opposition to Assad is controlled by outside influences, and that this leaves us no choice but to support Assad. I do not share this view. I don't deny that there is outside influence among one wing of the armed struggle in Syria, but I don't accept that the popular uprising has been entirely subsumed by the armed struggle.

Many anti-imperialists claim that the majority of Syrians support Assad, and therefore we should too, as though this is the same thing as support for the right of the syrian people to self-determination. I don't presume to know Assad's support level under such volatile conditions as exist in Syria, or what factors may motivate support for Assad. At the same time, I'm firmly opposed to those who would use support for Syrian self-determination as a cover for support for western imperialist intervention in Syria. 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

@ contrarianna: My bad, I took your post as at me. Left Turn was spot on with the exception he left out the role religion is starting to play in this. The only Muslims I know personally and talk about this all the time tend to think it's more about the split between Shia and Sunni Islam than we here think. ( I even talk about you here and some of your views with them.) 

Their father left Lebanon in the early 80’s because of the fighting there and has no love for the Assad family. He is very worried about the fighting spreading to Lebanon and reigniting the civil war he once fled.

howeird beale

Bravo, Left Turn. Outstanding.

DaveW

 

yes, Gonzaga, rebels are "wisely" attacking airports because it is now a legitimate military target, and frees rebels and civilians from undefendable air attacks by Assad regime;

on the ground, forces are much more equal, no slaughterhouse from the air

....................

new civil-assistance role for France:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/07/world/europe/france-sends-funds-to-5-s...

French diplomats say that France is not supplying funds for weapons or providing weapons to the rebel Free Syrian Army, an umbrella for a number of disparate groups that are separate from the councils. But they say they are in regular conversation with the rebels, to hear their needs and to encourage them to unite and to protect minorities and democratic values. France also wants to ensure the support of the armed rebels for the program of aid to the civilian councils, the diplomats say.

The fighting between the forces of the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, and the rebels continued in hot spots around the country, with opposition groups reporting at least 67 people dead. The groups described heavy shelling and gunfire in the suburbs of Damascus, especially south of the city. In the south, the groups said the storming of a town near the Jordanian border had stirred fears that the Syrian military might try to dam the torrent of refugees crossing into Jordan. The Free Syrian Army north of Aleppo said late Thursday that it was attacking the Minakh air base, one of the last Syrian military positions in the area, and a potential source of weapons and equipment.

Mr. Chevallier, who was withdrawn as France’s ambassador to Syria in March and is in charge of Syria at the French Foreign Ministry, said in an interview that President François Hollande decided last Wednesday to start the civic initiative. Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius mentioned it the next day at the United Nations Security Council, and “on Friday morning, we started to deliver this support to these revolutionary councils.”

 

 

NDPP

Western Intervention in Syria Creates Bloodshed and Civil War (and vid)

http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2012/09/western-intervention-syria-creates-b...

"France has taken the responsibility for supplying Syrian rebels with money and artillery on behalf of the US, which is not interested in soiling their hands before November's presidential elections, professor F William Engdahl told RT.."

 

Terrorists in Syria Threaten to Hit Civilian Aircraft

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/09/07/260245/syria-terrorists-may-hit-civ...

"The terrorist Free Syrian Army has threatened to attack the airports of teh capital, Damascus and the northwestern city of Aleppo

contrarianna

Left Turn wrote:

....

My fundamental position is that of support for the right of the Syrian people to self-determination....

It's fairly simple, in theory.

Self-determination means just that.
The concept depends on the notion of sovereignty of a nation state and the right for the people with that state, not necessarily the government, to determine what the government is to be. This can involve revolution, but it does NOT involve other states and outside armed factions  "helping" "self-determination" along. 

One does not have  to know the level of Syrian support for Assad or Al Qaeda, or foreign fighters or the small minority who are physically fighting for some concept of Western freedom--or people just wanting the slaughter just to stop--in order to be in favor of self-determination. 

There is only one way to support self-determination from outside Syria and that is to be opposed to your government's direct and indirect material involvement in this slaughter. Anything less is to support interventionist imperialism. In Canada, that means, among other things, being opposed to your government providing money to unregistered "humanitarian aid" organizations:

Quote:
....But Baird’s announcement prompted questions about why the relatively new organization received foreign aid when there are more established groups on the ground.

Some media reports have linked the group to a charity with an office in Pakistan that was once run by alleged al-Qaida financier Ahmed Said Khadr, whose son Omar is currently languishing behind bars in Guantanamo Bay.

Another report Wednesday suggested Canadian Relief for Syria was chosen because it would be better able to ensure opposition forces received care....

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/08/16/baird-reverses-decision-to-send-medic...

 
 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

And to prove informationclearinghouse and PressTV would never lead you wrong: 

Here the rebels are shooting up a civilian airport...

Go to 3:15 to see what the evil terrorists are shooting at if you can't bear to watch the whole thing.

More civilian aircraft shoot up here as well (could be from the same raid)

 

NDPP

Putin: Using AQ in Syria Like Sending Gitmo Inmates to Fight (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/vladimir-putin-exclusive-interview-481/

"In an RT exclusive premiere, President Putin gives his first post-inauguration interview speaking in depth with RT's Kevin Owen ahead of the APEC summit in Vladivostok. 'We should stop trying to impose unacceptable, dead-end solutions to the Syrian crisis.."

NDPP

UK Obsession with Regime Change Responsible for Syria Catastrophe (and vid)  -  by Tony Cartalucci

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2012/09/uk-obsession-with-regime-change...

"It is their hope to create such staggering amounts of Western-subsidized 'death and suffering' that the world begs for Western military intervention and regime change..."

 

'The Aim is to Divide Syria' - Maya Naser (and vid)

http://whatreallyhappened.com/fr/content/aim-divide-syria-maya-naser

Interview with Maya Naser, Syrian reporter

NDPP

'Foreign Islamists Seek to Turn Syria into Sharia State'

http://rt.com/news/syria-rebels-assad-islamists-699/

"About half of the rebel fighters in Syria are foreign Islamists who aren't interested in toppling the Assad regime. Instead they're seeking to implement Sharia law throughout the country.."

 

'Foreign Intervention in Syria Not a Hollywood Movie Ending with a Happy Kiss' (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/syria-moniquet-interview-intervention-167/

"A former French spy explained to RT that Syria and its neighborhood are a melting pot of religious and social groups and stirring it could spill over into a bloody conflict.."

 

Foreign Backed Insurgents in Syria Can Turn Against Turkey: Analyst (and vid)

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/09/09/260644/turkey-concerned-about-its-r...

Interview with Dr Webster Griffin Tarpley

 

NDPP

Syria Insurgents Execute 20 Soldiers in Aleppo

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/09/10/260836/insurgents-execute-20-syrian...

"The insurgents say the soldiers were captured in an attack on a military compound in the eastern district of Hanano sometime over the weekend. The soldiers had their hands tied behind their backs before they were lined up and shot.."

Could even have been one of our own dear FSA ethnic cleansers like Thwaiba Kanafani, Canuckleheads...aren't you proud?

Canadian Woman Partying With Rebel Gangs in Syria..

http://dodocanspell.blogspot.ca/2012/07/canadian-woman-partying-with-reb...

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Partying? Where'd you get that idea form?

howeird beale

doh! doh! link says we have:

 

no right as a Canadian citizen  to go abroad and join rebel groups  in other countries.

 

I'm pretty proud of those Canadians who did just that:

 

Except for France, no other country gave a greater proportion of its population as volunteers in Spain than Canada.

The Canadians who died in the Spanish Civil War are not included in the Books of Remembrance in the Peace Tower and their sacrifice is not commemorated on federal war memorials or in Remembrance Day services. Those who survived the war are not entitled to veterans' benefits. Although the soldiers and the war is largely forgotten, a monument to the Mackenzie–Papineau Battalion can be found in Victoria, British Columbia. A national monument to the Mac-Pap veterans was erected in Ottawa in 2001. It includes the names of the 1,546 Canadian volunteers who served in Spain. This number includes all those who served in the Mac-Pap battalion, the medical, communications, transportation and translation corps, or in other brigades.

One of the few Canadians to attain recognition for their service in Spain is Dr. Norman Bethune, who greatly developed the use of mobile army medical units for the Republican side.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackenzie%E2%80%93Papineau_Battalion

 

 

 

NDPP

You compare joining  the FSA cut-throats to the MacPaps? How ridiculous!

 

France To Fund/Arm Al Qaeda in Syria  -  by Tony Cartalucci

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2012/09/france-to-fundarm-al-qaeda-in-s...

"France has announced that it will be funding and arming terrorists operating along Syria's border, offering them heavy weapons, just as they did in Libya last year.."

 

contrarianna

Bloodlust Beale's proud version of the MacPaps East:

Quote:
Al-Qaeda's Specter in Syria
Author: Ed Husain, Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies
August 6, 2012

The Syrian rebels would be immeasurably weaker today without al-Qaeda in their ranks. By and large, Free Syrian Army (FSA) battalions are tired, divided, chaotic, and ineffective. Feeling abandoned by the West, rebel forces are increasingly demoralized as they square off with the Assad regime's superior weaponry and professional army. Al-Qaeda fighters, however, may help improve morale. The influx of jihadis brings discipline, religious fervor, battle experience from Iraq, funding from Sunni sympathizers in the Gulf, and most importantly, deadly results. In short, the FSA needs al-Qaeda now....

http://www.cfr.org/syria/al-qaedas-specter-syria/p28782

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

To have the foreigners fighting in Syrian compared to the Mac Paps is an insult to their memory. 

Yell

Read some history they were anti capitalist revolutionaries not religious zealots.  A better comparison if you want to use the Spanish Civil war would be the RCAF in Libya as the Condor Squad in Spain and Tripoli as Canada's Guernica.

If you need a western comparison for the evil religious mercenaries roaming the streets of Syria committing terrorist acts then they are the murderous Crusaders who also wanted to destabilize and rule what we now call Syria.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I still think you guys are underestimating the role religion is playing in this.

howeird beale

the link said, in its first sentence, individual Canadians "have no right" to intervene. If we accept this blanket prohibition of D'oh's pathetic blog, that takes out the Mac Paps.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

evil religious mercenaries roaming the streets of Syria

ndpp's french spy link wrote:

I do not think we have Al-Qaeda fighting on the streets of Aleppo, because it does not make sense

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

In fact the Mac Paps did not a a legal right to intervene either and in fact were mostly barred from fighting for their country in WWII because they had fought in Spain.  Nothing new there so what is your point?  I am not in Syria but the reports all point to there being religious fanatics running around with high powered weapons.  Killing indiscriminately is evil as far as I am concerned.  Your snippet saying there is not a specific group in a specific town is a joke right? You really weren't trying to use it as s logical argument to refute my very general statement were you?

howeird beale

Mac Paps: uhh, yeah... That's what I said. Glad you came around.

I was using someone else's post to point out the holes in the oft repeated canard here: that the Syrian people love their violent hereditary dictator, and that the unrest is strictly the product of outside interference rather than internal conflict.

Other than that, you don't seem to be able to follow a sequence of discussion without getting confused, so refuting your non-sequiturs and tangents doesn't really interest me.

NDPP

'Teachable Moments' Loom in Syria Conflict   -  by Christof Lehman

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NI06Ak01.html

"After more than 18 months of belligerent action against the government de jure of the Syrian Arab Republic, the regime is still maintaining relative stability and security. A peaceful solution, however, becomes increasingly illusive while the potentially catastrophic regional and global consequences of the failure to broker a peaceful resolution seem to be a harbinger of a return to global barbarism, anarchy and unspeakable human suffering..."

'anarchy'? If only...

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Analysis: Anti-Islam film diverts world's attention from Syrian civil war

Quote:

For the embattled Syrian regime, the crudely produced film mocking Islam that has unleashed fury across the Muslim world could not have come at a better time.

Images of furious protesters targeting Western diplomatic sites in Libya, Egypt, Pakistan and elsewhere have diverted the world's gaze from the bloodstained streets of Syria, where President Bashar Assad is trying to crush an 18-month-old uprising.

The crisis over the film also has reinvigorated militant rhetoric that U.S. and Israel are the real enemies of Muslims, taking the heat off of both Assad and his loyal and powerful ally in neighbouring Lebanon, the militant group Hezbollah.

On Tuesday, Syria's Cabinet condemned the movie, titled "Innocence of Muslims." In its first official reaction, the Cabinet said the film about the Prophet Muhammad is "cheap and provocative," adding that it's "part of a Western project that aims to infringe upon the nation's heritage and symbols ... as a prelude to control its potentials and wealth."

It remains to be seen whether the controversy will result in any lasting gains for Syria or for Hezbollah, whose reputation has suffered severely for siding with the Assad regime even after supporting revolts in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and Bahrain.

Assad better do what he’s got to do while the world (and babble) isn’t looking.  

 

Unionist

So Sam Bacile is Bashar al-Assad... wow! Trust Elizabeth A. Kennedy to shed the light of analytical truth on a complex situation!

Too bad "The Associated Press chief of bureau for Syria and Lebanon" can't spell Assad's name right. Ah well, I'm sure she got everything else right.

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Are you saying media attention on Syria is the same since this film thing came to light?

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Quote:

Syrian regime actively planning for use of chemical weapons against its people, as last resort:

I don't believe that.

Meanwhile...

Syrian rebels seize control of a border crossing 

Quote:

Syria's rebels have captured several other border crossings into Turkey, as well as one into Iraq, but Wednesday's seizure of the Tal Abyad post is believed to be the first time they have overrun a frontier post in the northern province of Raqqa.

Capturing such border crossings provides a strategic and logistical boost to the opposition, allowing them to ferry supplies into Syria and carve out an area of control, which is key as the rebels try to tip the balance in the civil war.

 

DaveW

 

Syrian regime actively planning for use of chemical weapons against its people, as last resort:

says ex-officer defector

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/proche-orient/le-regime-syrien-ut...

Le régime syrien utilisera les armes chimiques "en dernier recours"

Par LEXPRESS.fr,

publié le 19/09/2012 à 08:53, mis à jour à 08:57

 "Nous avions des discussions sérieuses sur l'usage d'armes chimiques, y compris sur la manière de les utiliser et dans quelles zones", affirme un ex-officier du régime de Bachar el-Assad au Times.

[...]

"We had serious discussions on the use of chemical weapons, including how to use and in which areas," says a former officer of Bashar al-Assad to the Times.

 

Gonzaga

Sorry I took so long to notice your reply DaveW. I suppose you're saying that you reject the arguments posted here. Still, few posters here are likely fans of Bashar Al-Assad either. A recent post by Tariq Ali on Znet ( www.zcommunications.org/uprising-in-syria-an-ugly-stalemate-by-tariq-ali ) mentions the Houla Massacre, about which he says that "it's now clear that the regime was responsible." He doesn't document this statement, but he's always struck me as honest and independent, so I'll consider it likely true.

Still, his position is that a NATO intervention would likely "install a semi-puppet government," as it did in Libya. And the current situation is hardly acceptable either. The rebels can't win, but they can prolong the conflict, perhaps indefinitely with Western support. That's why I think that any successful strategy by rebel forces can't ultimately be "wise." The right answer is for the rebels to negotiate. For that, the West has to insist that they negotiate or lose the arms and support they're getting now. Once that happens, pressure from the government's allies can force Assad to the table as well.

 

Gonzaga

Further to the above, I have since read the August 15 U.N. report, which seems quite credible and concludes that the Houla Massacre was the work of Shabiba working in concert with the Syrian Army. It discusses the Frankfurter Allgemeinezeitung report and explains why it rejects the arguments presented there. There's a link to it on the Wikipedia "Houla Massacre" article.

 

NDPP

Syrian President Welcomes Dialogue With Opposition

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/09/20/262713/syria-welcomes-dialogue-with...

"Syrian President Bashar al Assad says talks with the opposition groups are the sole solution to the unrest that has engulfed wth ME country for more than 18 months. Assad noted that 'change cannot be achieved through foreign intervention. The armed groups exercise terrorism against the state. They are not popular with society..they will not be victorious in the end..."

NDPP

Manufacturing Dissent: The Truth About Syria (and vid)

http://tipggita32.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/manufacturing-dissent-the-tru...

"Manufacturing Dissent is a documentary about the psychological warfare the media and political establishment of the West and their allies aimed at facilitating the US, European and Israeli agenda of getting rid of the current Syrian government.."

howeird beale

NDPP wrote:

Syrian President Welcomes Dialogue With Opposition

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/09/20/262713/syria-welcomes-dialogue-with...

"Syrian President Bashar al Assad says talks with the opposition groups are the sole solution to the unrest that has engulfed wth ME country for more than 18 months. Assad noted that 'change cannot be achieved through foreign intervention. The armed groups exercise terrorism against the state. They are not popular with society..they will not be victorious in the end..."

I respect that they then sought out comment from opposition leaders reacting to Assad's statement.

Just kidding. Of course they didn't. This manure's from Presstv.

DaveW

Gonzaga wrote:

Sorry I took so long to notice your reply DaveW. I suppose you're saying that you reject the arguments posted here. Still, few posters here are likely fans of Bashar Al-Assad either. A recent post by Tariq Ali on Znet ( www.zcommunications.org/uprising-in-syria-an-ugly-stalemate-by-tariq-ali ) mentions the Houla Massacre, about which he says that "it's now clear that the regime was responsible." He doesn't document this statement, but he's always struck me as honest and independent, so I'll consider it likely true.

Still, his position is that a NATO intervention would likely "install a semi-puppet government," as it did in Libya. And the current situation is hardly acceptable either. The rebels can't win, but they can prolong the conflict, perhaps indefinitely with Western support. That's why I think that any successful strategy by rebel forces can't ultimately be "wise." The right answer is for the rebels to negotiate. For that, the West has to insist that they negotiate or lose the arms and support they're getting now. Once that happens, pressure from the government's allies can force Assad to the table as well.

 

OK, but a regime like Assad's will only "negotiate" if they are back to the wall ... there was most of the year 2011 to make concessions to civil society and act reasonably.

What did they do instead? -- Fire live ammunition at civil demonstrators, repeatedly.

People  drew their own conclusions.

Don't overestimate the Assads. Their support is strongly ethnic, and large parts of society are splitting off from them, so that moment of weakness may coming faster than they think.

Fidel

Take it easy, General Ripper. This is supossed to be progressive social forum. Vee don't vroom-vroom with Al or CIA'duh 'round here.

howeird beale

It IS a progressive social forum. That's why supporting violent hereditary dictators isn't a prerequisite.

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