Ontario General Election 2014

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Rokossovsky

Aristotleded24 wrote:

I know that the minimum wage is a contentious issue, particularly with the demands for a $14 per hour minimum wage, based apparently on what is needed in Toronto. But Ontario is a big province. Are there perhaps jurisdictions where a liveable wage can be set lower at that? Could it be that voters in these areas balk at a minimum wage that high, thus accounting for politicians being reluctant to go that high? How do you meet the challenge of setting a liveable wage across a very diverse province where the costs of living may vary quite significantly depending on where you live?

That is a damn good point. Moreover, I am a little bit flumoxed by the fact that the labour movement and the progressive left hailed that last "minimum" wage drive for $10 and hour as a great big victory when the Liberal implemented it even though $10 an hour was, and still is a poverty wage.

It was argued then that progress, was progress, and Wynne was tractable and "progressive".

Now, however, in this case, the NDP offers what is a proportionally greater increase than Wynne implemented during the last minimum wage drive and it is not good enough and evidence that the NDP has abandoned its duty as a "progressive party".  A 10% increase implemented by the Liberals in 2010 is a victory, and a progressive step forward, and a 20% increase proposed by the NDP is evidence that the NDP is less progressive than the Liberals.

Something is wrong with this picture, because among other things, Liberals are getting a free ride on their pathetic minimum wage increase.

This shit stinks.

This minimum wage talking point is doing great service to the Liberals as a way of covering for the fact that they are planning to pawn all the family jewels.

NorthReport

Aide to McGuinty’s chief of staff twice refuses interview by OPP probe into deleted gas plant emails

Gary Dimmock, Postmedia News | May 8, 2014 8:00 AM ET
More from Postmedia News

Ontario Provincial Police investigating the destruction of emails in the final days of Dalton McGuinty’s term in office believe that an executive assistant’s password used to access staff computers without a trace was either voluntarily given up or  stolen, but they may never find out because she has refused to be interviewed.

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/05/08/aide-to-mcguintys-chief-of-staff...

 

Ontario police pursuing a criminal charge against McGuinty’s chief of staff over gas plant scandal

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/27/ontario-police-pursuing-a-crimin...

terrytowel

Grey Lyle of Innovative Research Group was on The Agenda last night and said according to thier polling only 40% of the electorate are angry about the gas plants. Of that 40% most are card carrying Tories, who would never vote for the Liberals. The remaining 60% are left leaning voters who don't see the gas plants as much of a scandal.

NorthReport

If the truth be known there is not much interest in actual democracy in Ontario, is there?

I don't see many walking the talk

Leaders' debates should be more than an afterthought

  

A few days into the Ontario election campaign, the major issues are already starting to emerge. There's the critical issue of foreign models being used in place of Ontarians in campaign advertisements. There are the many important questions raised by the staging of an opposition campaign event in a factory that - whoops! - benefited from government support policies. And of course there are the usual meat-and-potato issues of any election, the kinds of things that voters invariably find helpful in clarifying the choices before them - things like gaffes and photo ops and polls and attack ads and endless, endless discussions of strategy.

We're doing it again, in other words: we, the politicians and the pollsters and the strategists and the media, the whole godforsaken, incestuous, bathwater-drinking political class, the people whose combined exertions over many years have succeeded in driving turnout in provincial elections below 50 per cent. You wanted an election about issues, you hapless Ontario voters? You're getting a campaign about a campaign, same as always.

But wait. One of the party leaders, the NDP's Andrea Horwath, has challenged her rivals to a series of five televised debates, each devoted to a different issue. She suggested the economy could be the subject of one, and it wouldn't be hard to come up with a list of some other issues that might benefit from an in-depth exploration of the parties' differences: accountability, certainly, given the many scandals to erupt on the Liberals' watch, but also taxes, deficits, pensions, transit, health care. If they held the first one next week, they could have one a week for the rest of the campaign. We might experiment with different formats: maybe one organized as a series of oneon-one encounters, another giving the leaders a full 10 minutes each to argue their positions, possibly even a... I know. I know. It's not going to happen. For Horwath's proposal to come to pass the other leaders would have to agree, and since both the Liberals and the Conservatives lead the NDP by several points in the polls, why would they? Liberal Leader Kathleen Wynne craftily offered to participate in as many debates as the networks would allow. But since the networks have no interest in holding any - all that prime time with no commercials? - that means we will have as few as they can possibly get away with. If history is any guide, they'll probably saw it off at one or two, with the networks' star correspondents prominently displayed and the Greens carefully excluded. The format will be execrable, the leaders will be over-caffeinated, the media will complain of the lack of "knockout blows," and another opportunity will have been wasted.

 

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Leaders+debates+should+more+than+afte...

Rokossovsky

You mean that poll they took in September? In that poll the Liberals had a comfortable lead. The most recent polling shows a reversal of those poll numbers. What happened?

Couldn't possibly be that more voters see the gas plants as more of "a scandal" with revelations of even more scandalous behaviour, such as wiping of hard drives, and possible charges against McGuinty's chief of staff?

Meh. Couldn't be that. Any ideas?

NorthReport

The NDP is proposing the highest minimum wage.

 

 

onlinediscountanvils

Aristotleded24 wrote:
I know that the minimum wage is a contentious issue, particularly with the demands for a $14 per hour minimum wage, based apparently on what is needed in Toronto. But Ontario is a big province. Are there perhaps jurisdictions where a liveable wage can be set lower at that? Could it be that voters in these areas balk at a minimum wage that high, thus accounting for politicians being reluctant to go that high? How do you meet the challenge of setting a liveable wage across a very diverse province where the costs of living may vary quite significantly depending on where you live?

The demand for a $14/hour minimum wage was not set with only Toronto in mind. If anything, there has been some criticism that $14/hour would still not be an adequate wage in Toronto. Yes, rent is generally cheaper outside of the major population centres, but other costs of living (food, heating, and transportation) are often higher. This is not a Toronto-centric campaign. Local people have been organizing and demanding $14/hour in northern communities such as Kenora, Thunder Bay, Sault Ste Marie, Sudbury; and also in rural counties such as Northumberland, and Bruce and Grey. In fact, the executive director of the United Way of Bruce Grey says that $14/hour might not even be a living wage in her jurisdiction.

Dobbyn has put together a report to Queen's Park on what it costs to live in Owen Sound, or in either Grey or Bruce counties.

She says for a single parent with an eight year old and a 15 year old, a Living wage in Owen Sound would be $13.21 an hour -- while in the county, it would be $15.11.

Dobbyn says the difference is that Owen Sound has a transit system while in the county you need a car.

http://www.bayshorebroadcasting.ca/news_item.php?NewsID=60999

I trust the organizers of this campaign. I know they've thought this out. These are not frivolous demands.

Rokossovsky

What I find fascinating about how the whole minimum wage debate is playing out is that the Liberals were applauded by labour for increasing the minimum wage to $10 an hour back in 2010. In fact, Wynne raising the wage to $10 an hour, basically a 10% increase showed that Wynne was tractable and progressive.

At the time $10 an hour was well below a "living wage". But that didn't seem to matter to anyone. Progress was progress. So, vote Liberal.

Today, times have changed, a 20% increase proposed by the NDP is not nearly enough, and in fact shows that the NDP is not progressive, possibly even less progressive than the Liberals, even though a few years back a 10% increase by the Liberals was hailed as a marvelous victory.

So, it appears that the NDP needs to be at least twice as "generous" as the Liberals in order to be deemed progressive enough to be more progressive than the Liberals.

Certainly outsourcing government construction and maintenance contracts should help ensure that more people are working for minimum wage, which is what we want right?

terrytowel

Rokossovsky wrote:

You mean that poll they took in September? In that poll the Liberals had a comfortable lead. The most recent polling shows a reversal of those poll numbers. What happened?

Couldn't possibly be that more voters see the gas plants as more of "a scandal" with revelations of even more scandalous behaviour, such as wiping of hard drives, and possible charges against McGuinty's chief of staff?

Meh. Couldn't be that. Any ideas?

No this is a freshly released poll, whose numbers were revealed on The Agenda last night in an exclusive.

NorthReport

The difference this time around is that the NDP are now in the game.

Andrea came to BC last year to address the BC NDP convention and was by far the most effectiive of the guestspeakers at the convention.

Unfortunately no one in the BC NDP was listening.

With her labour roots, she grew up in an auto-worker household, Andrea is certainly rattling more than a few cages.

A lot of the tension results from the threat the NDP is now posing to the corrupt scandal ridden Liberals.

No one likes to have their authority or power challenged, especially when you have been fat cats for a long time.

terrytowel

terrytowel wrote:

Grey Lyle of Innovative Research Group was on The Agenda last night and said according to thier polling only 40% of the electorate are angry about the gas plants. Of that 40% most are card carrying Tories, who would never vote for the Liberals. The remaining 60% are left leaning voters who don't see the gas plants as much of a scandal.

These downtown Toronto voters blasé about Liberal scandals

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/05/07/these_downtown_toronto...

Rokossovsky

terrytowel wrote:

Rokossovsky wrote:

You mean that poll they took in September? In that poll the Liberals had a comfortable lead. The most recent polling shows a reversal of those poll numbers. What happened?

Couldn't possibly be that more voters see the gas plants as more of "a scandal" with revelations of even more scandalous behaviour, such as wiping of hard drives, and possible charges against McGuinty's chief of staff?

Meh. Couldn't be that. Any ideas?

No this is a freshly released poll, whose numbers were revealed on The Agenda last night in an exclusive.

Really?

I would lover to see the new poll, because it really sounds a lot like this one: Ontario voters not dismayed by Liberal gas plant scandal, poll suggests, where it says:

Quote:
And despite the controversy around the power plants – which the Liberals cancelled ahead of the 2011 election, at an estimated cost of $585 million – 45 per cent of respondents said they were satisfied with the government’s handling of the electricity file. That figure is actually up seven points from May 2011, before the power plant matter began to dog the Liberals.

NorthReport
NorthReport

2 for 2

On track again talking about jobs and the economy.

 

New Democrats to Create Jobs with Targeted Tax Credits

 

“Our Job Creation Tax Credit will help companies that are ready to invest in training local workers and equipment right here at home,” said Horwath. “While the Liberals and the Conservatives alike are sticking to no- strings-attached corporate tax giveaways that don’t create jobs, New Democrats are ready to make smart investments and work with the real job creators.”

Horwath said that Ontarians want a government that will make job creation a priority. New Democrats  will reward companies that create jobs with a Job Creation Tax credit that will pay 10% of the salary of new employees to a maximum value of $5000 dollars per business.

“In Niagara Falls Riding and across the province people are telling New Democrats that they’re sick of watching their jobs get shipped away. New Democrats have the best plan to put people to work and help middle class families,” said Horwath. “It’s simple: if you put people to work you earn a tax break.  It works and it will put people to work.”

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Rokossovsky

That's a snoozer. I'd like to see New Democrats to dismantle dysfunctional Full Day Kindergarden program to fund provincial child care program.

NorthReport

Wynne is starting to sound like Putin. Putin says he has withdrawn Russian troops from the Ukraine border but he hasn't. Wynne says she doesn't want to drag Harper into the Ontario election but then she does it again. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but voters know who the Liberals are running against and will start tuning Wynne out soon. It is a sure sign of wekness if you can not address your actual opponents, as opposed to battling it out with some boogeyman. Laughing

 

 

 

 

NorthReport

Easy Rider - I like it.

 

 

Andrea Horwath's campaign bus. Journalists are kicking around nicknames, but Easy Rider appears to be an early contender. It's an apparent reference to the quality of food served.

Andrea Horwath's campaign bus. Journalists are kicking around nicknames, but Easy Rider appears to be an early contender. It's an apparent reference to the quality of food served. 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/the-wynnebago-a...

terrytowel

Andrea Horwath - Makes Sense

Some people have commented on the fact that Mike Harris used a version of this slogan, Common Sense.

NorthReport

Those CLC election results confirm change is in the air, which is probably a good sign for Andrea. Smile

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Rokossovsky

terrytowel wrote:

Andrea Horwath - Makes Sense

Some people have commented on the fact that Mike Harris used a version of this slogan, Common Sense.

Yeah, I know. The word "common" as in Commonwealth. As in Canadian Commonwealth Federation. Mike Harris must have been referencing Tommy Douglas.

Is the best that you can do for political commentary?

Pogo Pogo's picture

I remember Preston Manning campaigning using Tommy Douglas slogans.  Does that make him a social democrat?

NorthReport

CBC’s Metro Morning confirms the obvious: nobody pays attention to Queen’s Park Laughing

 

 Andrea Horwath/Facebook; Wynne: Loralea Carruthers/Facebook; Hudak: Ontario Chamber of Commerce)

 

http://www.torontolife.com/informer/toronto-politics/2014/05/08/cbcs-met...

NorthReport

Coyne: Leaders’ debates shouldn’t be just an awkward afterthought

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Coyne+Leaders+debates+shouldn+just+awk...

mark_alfred

I was out with some of my friends (who generally default Liberal, but will occasionally vote for others) in Toronto and Horwath has caught their attention.  So that's good. 

The Toronto Star is perpetually attacking Horwath.  Means they see her as a threat, I figure.  I think it's going to be a good campaign.

NorthReport

Both the Toronto Star and Postmedia are seriously bleeding financially, yet they continue to spew out their right-wing nonsense. 

It makes you realize how out of touch they actually are with the voters.

The following article is a good example of their nonsense.

wage zombie

Skinny Dipper wrote:

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/08/andrea_horwaths_rightwing_populism_salutin.html

If I had an NDP card, or ever had one, or any party card, I’d rip it up, mostly in the hope it might feel good to do something in response to this travesty."

Right, because tearing up a membership card would somehow be considered "do[ing] something".

NorthReport

The usual Toronto Star tripe.  Laughing

SD,

I know you are very anxious for your beloved Liberals to crush the NDP, but do you really have to post full articles and break the rules here?

Is this indicative of the kind of "principled" Liberal behavior we have all come to know and not respect?

And is the reason there have been, how many Liberal scandals has it been now? 

Skinny Dipper

No, I will not be voting Liberal or Conservative.  I will not be voting for a right-wing Ontario NDP.  I'm not fond of the Greens either.  I will probably stay home on election day.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Don't forget to hold your breath.  You don't accomplish anything unless you do both.

Rokossovsky

Seriously nutso stuff from Salutin. Regg Cohn seemed convinced that the $100 rebate thing had something to do with a plan to reconstitute Ontario Hydro as a single crown corporation, or some other "right wing" idea.

Its ok for Wynne to run around using Jack Laytonesque "I won't stop until the job is done" rhetoric, while proposing to sell off the remains of Ontario Hydro, the LCBO and outsource long term maintenance for TTC contracts to the private sector, but should the NDP propose the opposite, and sound ever so slightly like "the right", its simply unforgiveable.

As I had long suspected, the truth is that for much of the Liberal/left its all about image and semantics, and they really don't give a fuck if the labour is outsourced to companies hiring minimum wage workers from temporary supply agencies.

And they wonder why Rob Ford got elected. Lol.

Rokossovsky

No wonder the left never wins any elections. They are friggin gobsmacked stupid.

Ten paragraphs of completely contentless garbage about semantics and optics without one reference to anything to do with policy.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

That Salutin article is frightening but sadly enough, seems on the mark. I remember the Harris days in Ontario and it was bleak, very bleak. That Horwath would jettison what seemed like a more than reasonable budget just galls me. And Salutin is right, it does harken back to Layton rejecting Martin's desperate attempt to hold on to power with such hugh concessions as the Kelowna Accord and National Child Care.

When seeking power is more important that seeking better policies for Canadians, you lose my vote, membership and campaign contribution. I used to think that minority governments were a good thing in terms of forcing better decisions on those in charge for fear of an election. But I guess that's old school thinking these days.

Rokossovsky

How is selling Ontario Hydro, outsourcing labour contracts for transit construction and selling off the LCBO, and other forms of "alternative" financing as a way to pay for a couple of mild social welfare increases "more than reasonable"? 

Frankly, in the face of that bait and switch, I have to say that the only reasonable response was making the government fall on principle, as opposed to buying into the austerity agenda for chump change and a less than rate of inflation increase for people on social assistance.

Win or lose, I am completely happy the NDP collapsed this budger. Ontarians were being sold down the river to corporate interests for pennies on the dollar.

Speaking of which, if Kathleen Wynne's budget was so "wonderful, wonderful", why did she not table it in the legislature for debate?

I have an answer for that: It doesn't pass the smell test.

NorthReport

Salutin is a dyed in the wool Liberal, writing in the CBC/TStar Liberal media wing of the party, and is writing one-sided gibberish.

One small example of many: The NDP was quite prepared to bring down Harper and the idiotic egotistical "entitled to my entitlements" Liberals walked. Gee, I wonder why Salutin just happened to forget that in his revisionist histoy lesson. Laughing

laine lowe wrote:

That Salutin article is frightening but sadly enough, seems on the mark. I remember the Harris days in Ontario and it was bleak, very bleak. That Horwath would jettison what seemed like a more than reasonable budget just galls me. And Salutin is right, it does harken back to Layton rejecting Martin's desperate attempt to hold on to power with such hugh concessions as the Kelowna Accord and National Child Care.

When seeking power is more important that seeking better policies for Canadians, you lose my vote, membership and campaign contribution. I used to think that minority governments were a good thing in terms of forcing better decisions on those in charge for fear of an election. But I guess that's old school thinking these days.

NorthReport

We actually should be talking about jobs or lack thereof in Ontario

Unilever closure turns talk to jobs on the election trail

The closure of yet another major Ontario manufacturing plant landed with a thud in the provincial election campaign.

Unilever’s announcement that it would shut down a Toronto-area plant and ship 280 jobs to Missouri came as all three campaigning political leaders attempt to position themselves as job creators.

The shuttering of the Brampton, Ont., plant follows similar moves by Kellogg’s, Heinz and other manufacturers.

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The Liberals have no plans to keep jobs here,” Horwath said later in the day in London, Ont., reacting to the Unilever job losses. “Instead of finding ways to keep employers in Ontario, the Liberal government has driven up the cost of electricity, making it tough for business here to compete.”


http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2014/05/20140508-...

Job creation plans dominate Ontario campaign

http://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/4506871-job-creation-plans-dominate...

Rokossovsky

Here is something worth reading to clear the air of Salutin's mewling about aesthetics.

Quote:
Ontario has spent so much time figuring out what happened after the cancellation of the plants that we’re in danger of forgetting what happened before the cancellation, and why.

Under Duncan, the Ontario Ministry of Energy issued a request for proposals for the gas plants in 2004. It awarded the contracts in 2005. The tender process and the resulting contracts were unusual, to say the least.

Under the tender process,the only entity in the province with any experience in building large generation projects – Ontario Power Generation – was prevented from bidding. It was not even permitted to participate as a partner with any of the proponents.

The problem at the heart of Ontario’s gas plant fiasco: public-private partnerships

But don'e worry. Wynne won't stop, until the job is done.

 

Aristotleded24

There is a realistic chance that the PCs were bound to form a government whenever the election was held. While people in Ontario rightly have bad memoires of Mike Harris, here in Manitoba we had our own answer to Mike Harris in Gary Filmon. Should that scenario come to pass, which party or leader do you want in charge of opposing this government? Manitoba's experience shows that it does matter who sits in opposition. Filmon was replaced by the NDP opposition that had been challenging him, and the NDP has undone some of the damage that Filmon did. The NDP has not gone as far as they should. MTS remains a private utility. The threshold for joining a union is still too high. Upper income and corporate taxes have been reduced far too much. Poverty persists. Mega hog barns have damaged the rural countryside. All that said, there are more doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals in this province than there were before, and we have a good home care system. While still too expensive, tuitions have not risen at the same rate as in the rest of the country. While not enough, minimum wage has gone up at least yearly for most of the last 15 years. Child care workers have pension plans, and Manitoba's child care system is among the best in the country. More affordable housing units are being built, although much more needs to be done. And employers are now legally required to remove all barriers to employment that people with disabilities face. Assuming that the worst case scenario is about to come to pass, the question becomes, what next? Who do you want to stand up to Tim Hudak?

Aristotleded24

And not to get off topic, but when Salutin says:

Quote:
By contrast, Jack Layton’s NDP killed a national childcare program and gave us a Harper government in the bargain — but it finally became the official opposition. Now we get Horwath’s NDP killing an Ontario pension plan and willing to boost Hudak.

In the years that Harper has been Prime Minister, Manitoba has expanded child care spaces, boosted wages, and provided child care workers with a pension plan. Child care is primarily a provincial responsibility. If child care is that important to Salutin, what has he done to adovcate that the Ontario government improve the system it has?

Aristotleded24

[url=http://rabble.ca/babble/labour-and-consumption/ontario-federation-labour... elsewhere:[/url]

Aristotleded24 wrote:
You know, when I read these articles, especially by people from urban areas where conservative or right-wing candidates are not a factor at all, I wonder how much contact these people have with conservative voters. It's almost as if there's a fear that the conservative barbarians are wandering about outside the city gates, and they are about to storm the city and take it down, so we have to build a fortress to stop it. Even the strategic voting idea is based on that, stopping the conservatives.

Do you want to know how to stop the conservatives? You go out everywhere and you try to convince more people to support your party than the conservatives, and I truly believe the NDP is better at that than the Liberals, especially in the outlying areas. Look at seats in Essex, Waterloo, London, and Niagra Falls, where without a Liberal incumbent, it was the NDP that won those seats and blocked the conservatives. Federally, we have MPs like Yvon Godin, Charlie Angus, John Rafferty, Nikki Ashton, Nathan Cullen, Alex Atamenenko (this list is by no means comprehensive) who are out in rural areas, many in areas where conservative voters live. Learn from their experience. Talk to conservative voters. You may be surprised at finding elements of their better nature you can tap into.

NorthReport

Well said A24.

Quite frankly I am more fearful of talking with people who tell you they are left-of-centre, but who support right-wing policies, as opposed to right-of-centre folks who tell you they are right-wing and actually are right-wing.

With right-wingers at least you know who you talking with. 

There is something to be said for just being principled and honest, which far too many on the so-called left-of-centre have unfortunately forgotten about I guess.

Quite sad that people feel they have to forgo fundamental decent good principled living habits in their quest to get what they consider ahead. 

 

NorthReport

How did Andrea phrase it:  "Time for the Liberals to spend some time in the penalty box"

Just in case anyone missed it:

The ballot box question is now: Can the Horwath-led NDP defeat Hudak?

Realistically, with Andrea leadership abilities, and the NDP within striking distance of the Liberals, and the Liberals now trailing the Cons by 11%, the NDP are now probably our only hope to defeat the Cons, as it's quite obvious the Liberals are toast.

Picking a fight with Harper in an attempt to avoid talking about the Liberal record of corruption, scandals, and privatization, was perhaps not Wynne's wisest course of action if the polls are any indication.

Who are the clowns again that are running Kathleen's Liberal campaign?

Quote:
Poll season begins Elections mean one thing: obsessive tracking of opinion polls. And the latest one doesn’t look good for the Liberals. A survey by Oracle shows the Progressive Conservatives have surged ahead to 42 per cent, with the Liberals trailing at 31 per cent, while the NDP has 25 per cent support. However, the popularity of the leaders is a different story. PC leader Tim Hudak’s popularity is at 28 per cent, compared to 42 per cent for NDP leader Andrea Horwath and 40 per cent for Liberal leader Kathleen Wynne. Oracle surveyed 1,000 people by phone between May 2 and 5, after the NDP said they wouldn’t support the budget. The results have a margin of error of plus or minus three per cent.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Ontario+election+roundup/9819903/s...

NorthReport

Apart from all the Liberal corruption and scandals, let's have a though discussion of the unemployment situation in Ontario, eh!

It seems that one place after another is closing up shop in Ontario - what gives?

Brampton soup plant closure becomes Ontario election campaign flashpoint

The pending closure of a Unilever soup plant in Brampton at a cost of 280 jobs became a flashpoint in the Ontario election campaign Thursday.

On a day opposition leaders highlighted their job creation measures — including a Progressive Conservative push for more skilled trades — the NDP’s Andrea Horwath said the shutdown slated for 2016 demonstrates Kathleen Wynne’s government has “no plan to keep jobs here.”

“The maintenance of good jobs is something the Liberals have failed miserably on,” Horwath charged at the Covent Garden Market in London after reviving her 2011 election promise for job creation tax credits.


http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/1028050/brampton-soup-plant-closure-bec...

 

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NorthReport

Only two days into the campaign and it sure appears that Andrea is on a roll.

So what dirty tricks will the Liberals come up with next, because they are definitely lobbing them out there, on a daily if not more often basis, however the Liberals are now batting zero for two, and falling flat on their collective faces. 

Horwath wants made-in-Windsor job solution

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Skinny Dipper

I am fine with Andrea Horwath choosing not to support the "NDP-style" Liberal budget.  As she stated, just because there were good things promised in the budget, it wouldn't have meant that the Liberal government would have implemented them.  I also think that if the NDP had supported the Liberals, the NDP would have started to become irrelevant in a battle between the Liberals and Hudak's Conservatives.  Politically, it was wise for Andrea Horwath and the Ontario NDP to withhold support of the budget.

It's difficult for me to distinguish Ms. Horwath from other political leaders.  When I listened to her on TVO's The Agenda, I couldn't tell if she was a New Democrat or a leader from any other party.  She spoke as a generic politician.  When Rick Salutin stated that Andrea Horwath was a right-wing populist, he was sharing my belief that if Ms. Horwath were to become the next premier, she will lead the province as a right-winger--perhaps not as right-wing as Tim Hudak, but right-wing nevertheless.

Rokossovsky

Not if she actually attempted to pursue the program that she espouses, at least in comparison to her competitors.

The problem here, with Rick and others is that they are adding to the confusion of what right wing and left wing are. Right wing populism, from Mussolini down to Rob Ford have always mimicked left-wing populism.

Rick has stepped through the looking glass, and based on his logic one might conclude that the Social Democratic Party of Germany was a right wing party because Hitler was running on a ticket with a party that had "socialist" in its name.

Where people like Rob Ford have become successful is by activating the traditional left-wing base by rejecting he regime of consumption taxes and user-fees that has been implemented (often by left-leaning politicians like Dave Miller), in order to make up for the massive loss or government revenue caused by tax cuts on wealth and captial.

By opposing the implementation of increased consumption taxes, user fees and tolls, as well as income tax on the lower strata of society, and proposing taxes on capital, through increased corporate taxes, Horwath is actually reclaiming a strategic position traditionally dominated by the left, and one that has been stupidly surrendered by the left in the attempt to accomodate neo-liberalism, and still provide basic government services.

Whether or not she is sincere in that effort, or as Regg Cohn suggests, in his sniggering article about "naive and silly" leftist ideas, capable of doing things like reconsituting Ontario Hydro as a single crown corporation (Cohn maybe right on this), the fact remains that her platform is based in bedrock social democratic/left ideas, however they are articulated: tax the rich, expand government ownership of the strategic high points of the economy such as power generation.

I don't think it makes one bit of difference if labour rights in this province openly destroyed, the way Hudak declares he will, or by sugar coating a program of mass privatization with a few minor increases to social spending as proposed by the Liberals, both are equally dangerous, and need to be rejected.

I don't really care who wins the election, but one thing that is important, is not allow the semantic confusion of people like Rick Salutin to confuse us with his misunderstanding of the intentional optical illusion of the right, when it mimics left wing populism, as if that means they are one in the same.

josh

Have to laugh at the party hacks on here attacking Salutin as a "wacko"
and a Liberal when he's far more sane and left than either of them.

And as anyone on the left south of the border will tell you, the phrase "job creators" is right-wing tripe. It makes my skin crawl.

Brachina

 Andrea is leftwing, but I do think she's targeting working class tories so she incorperates some of the terminology. She knows these guys can't stand Hudak, but they like her so they are targetable, so she's speaking they're language.

 She's also going after liberal voters, but targeting them more over implementation then terminology.

Rokossovsky

josh wrote:
Have to laugh at the party hacks on here attacking Salutin as a "wacko" and a Liberal when he's far more sane and left than either of them. And as anyone on the left south of the border will tell you, the phrase "job creators" is right-wing tripe. It makes my skin crawl.

Care to point out a what point Salutin elevates himself above aesthetics and ad hominem smears and talks policy? Doubtful you know the difference, as this post illustrates.

The Liberal budget is a sugar coated privatization bomb.

Again, something on policy worth reading for those who wish to rise above.

The Ontario Budget and the 2014 election

OPSEU wrote:
In the Budget, these changes would have been paid for in three main ways: through small tax increases, big spending cuts, and significant asset sales and privatization.

Aristotleded24

josh wrote:
Have to laugh at the party hacks on here attacking Salutin as a "wacko" and a Liberal when he's far more sane and left than either of them.

The problem with Salutin's analysis is that he accepts the Liberal frame of reference. In other words, if Ontario voters choose Hudak over the Liberals, it's because the NDP defeated a reasonable budget, not because the Liberals messed up and lost public support. Harper won the election because Jack Layton toppled the Martin government, not because the Liberals lost public support over the sponsorship scandal and failed to deliver on their promises while they were in office. He seems unaware or does not acknowledge that in both cases, the conservatives would likely have won an election whenever it happened anyways, and there would have been nothing the Liberals could have done to stop it. And Mulroney won in 1988 because Broadbent split the vote with the Liberals, not because the Liberals had severe issues that they couldn't resolve in time for 1988. He seems unwilling to examine why the Liberals lose popularity or what it is that people find appealing about conservative parties, and he doesn't seem to know how to challenge them directly, so the solution must be to keep the Liberals in power forever.

DaveW

Rokossovsky wrote:

Seriously nutso stuff from Salutin. 

Yea, he is usually more discerning, very dogmatic here;

but then I am living in another province, maybe I don't get it.

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