Ontario General Election 2014

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Rokossovsky

Regg Cohn recycles last weeks news and hits the "Strategic Voting" button again and again, like the reflex action of a lab rat when the treats run out: Blames CUPE and OPSEU for defending their members jobs from the Liberal axe and supporting the NDP.

Regg Cohn wrote:
Warren “Smokey” Thomas, head of the Ontario Public Sector Employees Union, was smoking mad. Together with Fred Hahn, head of CUPE Ontario, he backed a controversial decision by NDP Leader Andrea Horwath to reject the Liberal budget, triggering the June 12 election.

In so doing, they dissented from the consensus within the main union umbrella group, the Ontario Federation of Labour...

Does Cohn even know what a consensus is?

ygtbk

Rokossovsky wrote:

Regg Cohn recycles last weeks news and hits the "Strategic Voting" button again and again, like the reflex action of a lab rat when the treats run out: Blames CUPE and OPSEU for defending their members jobs from the Liberal axe and supporting the NDP.

Regg Cohn wrote:
Warren “Smokey” Thomas, head of the Ontario Public Sector Employees Union, was smoking mad. Together with Fred Hahn, head of CUPE Ontario, he backed a controversial decision by NDP Leader Andrea Horwath to reject the Liberal budget, triggering the June 12 election.

In so doing, they dissented from the consensus within the main union umbrella group, the Ontario Federation of Labour...

Does Cohn even know what a consensus is?

I thought it was funnier when he said:

Quote:

The NDP progressives who brought down the most progressive Liberal budget in two decades, and who brought on the Hudak onslaught, will bring on a workers' paradise.

and

Quote:

Did the New Democrats go from being Liberal enablers to Tory enablers?

Even for a Liberal propagandist (which is what he does, day-in, day-out) that's a little over-the-top.

mark_alfred

Greens release their platform.  link

Rokossovsky

Definitely in panic mode. Wynne isn't getting any traction in the polls, and the hope of converting the Liberal minority into an Liberal majority by feeding on NDP flesh, seems so far to have failed.

He can't seem to decide if he should slam Horwath for being a lunatic fringe socialist, or a right wing populist. Maybe someone sent him Salutin's talking points by accident, and he got confused?

nittanylionstorm07

terrytowel wrote:

Rebecca West wrote:

 

Please explain how the word corral is a negative reference to Asian Canadians? North Report's phrasing references "Gunfight at the OK Corral". As far as I know, there were no people of Asian origin involved in that much-mythologized gunfight. Because oppressive language is so pervasive, it is important that we be very clear about how words can be oppressive.

When he used the word 'Corral' it is likened it to an Asian Buffet, like The Golden Corral. So when you use the word 'Corral' with Asians, some would think of these all you can eat Asian buffets. Maybe I'm too sensetive, but I felt I owed you an explanation as to why I felt offended.

 

This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen on a message board.  First... the Golden Corral isn't even an Asian buffet.  I think the closest things they have to Asian food on their buffet are the dried crispy chow mein noodles for a salad topping...possibly some lo mein or eggrolls as an entree option once in a while.  I'm pretty sure their standard taco bar, steak/chicken and mashed potatoes,  etc. etc. is about as Asian as Texas.

 

You should research the term corral as used in everyday English.  It typically references the OK Corral and/or rodeo/western culture ("corral the sheep/cows")

josh

Hudak's 100,000 job cut would actually cost around 165,000 jobs.

http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2014/05/11/tim-hudak-job-killer/

adma

If the Grits aren't getting traction, I wonder if a big monkey in the room that nobody's taking about is Wynne's sexuality--just putting it out there.  (Though I'd rather downplay the raw homophobia, on behalf of a perception that it's a "fancy-pants urban elite thing".)

But blessed be that thus far no major media, etc *is* making an issue of her sexuality.

Rokossovsky

Very likely.

NorthReport

He may be smirking now but the nite is young.

The Liberals with the CBC and the Star playing offensive line for Wynne, are trying very hard to deceive the voters, so it's no wonder Andrea said thanks but no thanks,

Once the general population clues in to fact that the Liberals are going down big time and will probably end up a distant third if the first week of the campaign is any indication, things will begin to move quickly.  

Hudak may well not be smiling as it gests closer to crunch time when he realizes he is fighting Horwath rather than Wynne for the brass ring.

Hudak will need to win over urban Ontario: Expert

 

Brachina
josh

Nearly two-thirds of Ontarians disapprove of Tim Hudak's plan to cut 100,000 public servants to streamline government, a new poll suggests.

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news-story/4517677-hudak-s-popularity-ta...

ygtbk

This piece is actually pretty mild compared with what the Ontario Liberals actually deserve.

NorthReport

Except it will not be the Liberals that will benefit becaue you are forgetting one teeny little thing - close to 75% of Ontarians want a change in government.

Link

 

josh wrote:

Nearly two-thirds of Ontarians disapprove of Tim Hudak's plan to cut 100,000 public servants to streamline government, a new poll suggests.

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Ontario NDP pledges to create minister for cutting budget

NDP Leader Andrea Horwath has announced plans to appoint a new cabinet minister role tasked with cutting waste at Queen’s Park.

The Minister of Savings and Accountability would be charged with finding a half a per cent of savings – about $600-million – in the annual budget each year.

“There are a lot of people around the cabinet table whose business it is, whose job it is to spend the money,” Ms. Horwath said.

“What I want is someone there who’s going to be able to save the pennies.”

Yeah, who ever keeps calling Horwath a right-wing populist who will try any harebrained scheme, no matter how cynical or see through, if she thinks it will get her votes -- they out to lunch.

Aristotleded24

Curiouser and curiouser. Has she consulted with the public sector unions?

I don't find fault with the essence of what she is saying. Inefficiencies in the public sector are an issue that needs to be dealt with, but the proper way to deal with them is to get into the nuts and bolts of government operations, not to have someone at the top circle a dollar figure and tell the departments to meet that. What would this person do that the auditor general does not?

NorthReport

Catchfire sounds like you saying vote NDP if want fiscal responsibility.

I agree with that.

We have to pay our bills in our household, and governments should be paying their bills and not wasting taxpayers money either. 

With the huge corporate tax cuts we have had in Canada from both the Liberals and Conservatives,

there are limited government funds available.

 

josh

NorthReport wrote:

We have to pay our bills in our household, and governments should be paying their bills and not wasting taxpayers money either. 

 

Are you saying governments aren't paying their bills?

josh

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Curiouser and curiouser. Has she consulted with the public sector unions?

I don't find fault with the essence of what she is saying. Inefficiencies in the public sector are an issue that needs to be dealt with, but the proper way to deal with them is to get into the nuts and bolts of government operations, not to have someone at the top circle a dollar figure and tell the departments to meet that. What would this person do that the auditor general does not?

 

Wasting money by being unnecessarily redundant. But, hey, it's a good sound bite. And that's all that matters.

Unionist

Catchfire wrote:

Yeah, who ever keeps calling Horwath a right-wing populist who will try any harebrained scheme, no matter how cynical or see through, if she thinks it will get her votes -- they out to lunch.

Just had mine, thanks.

Anyway, if Horwath wants to "save the pennies", why doesn't she do what we did in Québec (and Newfoundland & Labrador) in 1998: Eliminate the separate school system, replace it with linguistic boards, and save more than $1 billion per year?

Oh wait, that would be [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ontario-greens-... theft[/url].

Plus it would require some nerve. She wouldn't want to piss off Catholic voters, who I imagine are a far more powerful force in Ontario than in Québec and NL. Tongue out

onlinediscountanvils

Catchfire wrote:

Ontario NDP pledges to create minister for cutting budget

NDP Leader Andrea Horwath has announced plans to appoint a new cabinet minister role tasked with cutting waste at Queen’s Park.

The Minister of Savings and Accountability would be charged with finding a half a per cent of savings – about $600-million – in the annual budget each year.

“There are a lot of people around the cabinet table whose business it is, whose job it is to spend the money,” Ms. Horwath said.

“What I want is someone there who’s going to be able to save the pennies.”

Yeah, who ever keeps calling Horwath a right-wing populist who will try any harebrained scheme, no matter how cynical or see through, if she thinks it will get her votes -- they out to lunch.

Catchfire, what you see as transparent harebrained right-wing populism, I see as a subtle but clever rebuke of the policies of Jim Flaherty - and by extension, Tim Hudak and all the other Harris acolytes. Brilliant strategy by Horwath! Go, Andrea, go! #nextpremier

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

What a joke. Even if you don't believe, as I do, that just talking about "ineffeciencies" and "government waste" and "cost savings" buys into the whole rhetoric of austerity and neoliberalism -- which aside from being horrible policy it is also bad strategy since everyone knows that there are at least two options who do neoliberal austerity better than the fucking NDP -- this is so god-awful as government policy and cabinet management I don't know where to start.

1. It is transparently cynical and desperate. It's laughable and had a tailor-made reubttal, which even dimwit Hudak was bright enough to find:

Mr. Hudak laughed when asked about Ms. Horwath's idea during an event rolling out his own platform.

"Only the NDP would create more bureaucracy to reduce bureaucracy," he said.

Lol!

2. The NDP will never win with policies that adhere to Conservative definitions of what counts as fiscal responsibility. Fiscal responsibility is not spending your time looking under couch cushions for extra change. Fiscal responsibility is spending money responsibly on programs that help regular people and not the rich or corporations. All else is a smoke screen.

3. It is a terrible way to define cabinet. Where is the Minister of Public Insurance? The Minister of Social Housing? The Minister of Food Security? No, no bold ideas from Horwath -- just the Hon. Minister Scrooge McDuck.

Thank God I will never live in Ontario again. What an embarrassment. (Luckily I have my own embarrassment here in Vancouver, with Vision and the BCNDP.)

josh

Well said, Catchfire.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

josh

Good Lord.

NorthReport

josh,

Pathetic response.

Does the phrase "Ontario is a have-not province" mean anything to you?

The Liberals have been seriously fiscally irresponsible about government finances in Ontario.

Do you realize what kind of an impact this might have on pensions?

josh wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

We have to pay our bills in our household, and governments should be paying their bills and not wasting taxpayers money either. 

 

Are you saying governments aren't paying their bills?

 

NorthReport

If you want fiscal irresponsibility you have 2 choices - vote Liberal or PCs.

josh wrote:

Good Lord.

ygtbk

Catchfire wrote:

Much as this might not be doctrinaire, it strikes me as good strategy for the ONDP.

1) The ONDP are trying to differentiate themselves from Bob Rae's NDP by casting themselves as good financial managers.

2) The Liberals have had a pretty poor track record wrt debt and deficits since 2003. Doubling the debt and running a persistent large deficit (and who can forget the gas plant cancellations?) makes the Liberals really vulnerable on this front.

3) It preemptively steals Tim Hudak's clothes when he talks about how the PC's will finally undo years of Liberal waste.

NorthReport

Ontario now receives the 2nd highest equalization payments in Canada.

How many people in Ontario realize how destructive the Liberals have been to their government finances.  

Shame on the fucking Liberals eh moderator Catchfire.

Link

 

Canada, the federal government makes equalization payments to less wealthy Canadian provinces to equalize the provinces' "fiscal capacity" — their ability to generate tax revenues. A province that does not receive equalization payments is often referred to as a "have province", while one that does is called a "have not province". In 2013–14, six provinces will receive $16.105 billion in equalization payments from the federal government.[1] Until the 2009–10 fiscal year, Ontario was the only province to have never received equalization payments; in 2009–10 Ontario received $347 million,[2] while Newfoundland and Labrador, which has received payments since the program's creation, is now a so-called "have" province, and does not receive them.

-----------------------------------------------

Quebec will receive the most from equalization payments in the 2013-2014 year.[4]
However, per capita, PEI benefits the most. In the 2013-2014 year, the following provinces will receive equalization payments:[4]

  • Quebec ($7.833 billion)
  • Ontario ($3.169 billion)
  • Manitoba ($1.792 billion)
  • New Brunswick ($1.513 billion)
  • Nova Scotia ($1.458 billion)
  • Prince Edward Island ($340 million)

Catchfire wrote:

Thank God I will never live in Ontario again. What an embarrassment. (Luckily I have my own embarrassment here in Vancouver, with Vision and the BCNDP.)

 

terrytowel

Well looks like Kathleen Wynne has all the Mississauga seats sewn up.

Hazel McCallion endorsed Kathleen Wynne in the Ontario election campaign, urging all Mississauga residents to vote Liberal.

Hazel is bullet-proof. What she says goes, in Mississauga that is.

Watch next for robo-calls to all the Mississauga ridings, with Hazel telling those constiutents to vote Liberal.

Wynne has won those Mississauga seats, and we are only in week two of this election!

 

NorthReport

With the dismal financial record and the serious financial damage the Liberals have done to Ontario, it would be embarassing to run for them.

terrytowel

NorthReport wrote:

With the dismal financial record and the serious financial damage the Liberals have done to Ontario, it would be embarassing to run for them.

No matter, Mississauga residents will do what they are told by Hazel. She says to vote Liberal, Mississauga residents will do just that. All because Hazel said so. Those are five seats in Wynne's cap.

NorthReport

So you say

Unionist

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

“What I want is someone there who’s going to be able to save the pennies.”

Catchfire, what you see as transparent harebrained right-wing populism, I see as a subtle but clever rebuke of the policies of Jim Flaherty - and by extension, Tim Hudak and all the other Harris acolytes. Brilliant strategy by Horwath! Go, Andrea, go! #nextpremier

Ok, you cracked me up, thanks oda.

And a penny for your next thought!

 

terrytowel

Unless you live in Mississauga, you don't know about the power Hazel has over the residents of Mississauga. She says jump, those residents jump.

This is a woman who has never campaigned for mayor. She just put her name on the ballot and won election after election.

Her popularity is that high.

And you question her popularity and power of persuasion with the electorate?

She is untouchable.

NorthReport

Wondering what Unionist and Catchfire are not clammering for a separate thread to discuss Ontario's dismal finacial position.

This just shows how ridiculous that approach is where we would end up having hundreds of threads just on the Ontario election itself.

But the bigger iissue is - nstead of lecturing others you guys should try walking the talk.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Walking the talk is opening a discussion thread and talking about alleged fiscal problems? Or is it undermining activists, unions and the long-time party supporters by adopting a cynical austerity agenda because they think it sells?

Try not to take things too personally, NorthReport.

NorthReport

Catchfire just a wee bit of advice.

Berfore start lecturing others too much, try looking in the mirror and remember you are a moderator here.

Yes, of course you are entitled to your opinions here, like anyone else, but perhaps you might want to reflect a bit more on your personal biases before you let go with your posts.

Something to think about.

Rokossovsky

Unionist wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

Yeah, who ever keeps calling Horwath a right-wing populist who will try any harebrained scheme, no matter how cynical or see through, if she thinks it will get her votes -- they out to lunch.

Just had mine, thanks.

Anyway, if Horwath wants to "save the pennies", why doesn't she do what we did in Québec (and Newfoundland & Labrador) in 1998: Eliminate the separate school system, replace it with linguistic boards, and save more than $1 billion per year?

Oh wait, that would be [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ontario-greens-... theft[/url].

Plus it would require some nerve. She wouldn't want to piss off Catholic voters, who I imagine are a far more powerful force in Ontario than in Québec and NL. Tongue out

The Liberals are already half way there my friend. Except they are getting set to eliminated all the boards, through amalgamating duplication of services, creating the prospect of a single centralized ministry of education with next to no local control. Precisely what Bill 122 was all about.

Be careful what you wish for. Or more precisely what you wish upon other people.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

NorthReport, feel free to be specific about what you see as problematic about my posts. If it's just that I am biased against mealy-mouthed politicians who sellout their base and their allies at the faintest whiff of power, well, you can save your breath.

NorthReport

Thank you.

Very well said.

Unionist doesn't appreciate non-Quebecers commenting on Quebec politics but he he is quite prepared to pontificate on political situations elsewhere.

But you have to give him credit for for at least having consistency with his Double Standard. 

Rokossovsky wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

Yeah, who ever keeps calling Horwath a right-wing populist who will try any harebrained scheme, no matter how cynical or see through, if she thinks it will get her votes -- they out to lunch.

Just had mine, thanks.

Anyway, if Horwath wants to "save the pennies", why doesn't she do what we did in Québec (and Newfoundland & Labrador) in 1998: Eliminate the separate school system, replace it with linguistic boards, and save more than $1 billion per year?

Oh wait, that would be [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ontario-greens-... theft[/url].

Plus it would require some nerve. She wouldn't want to piss off Catholic voters, who I imagine are a far more powerful force in Ontario than in Québec and NL. Tongue out

The Liberals are already half way there my friend. Except they are getting set to eliminated all the boards, through amalgamating duplication of services, creating the prospect of a single centralized ministry of education with next to no local control. Precisely what Bill 122 was all about.

Be careful what you wish for. Or more precisely what you wish upon other people.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

NorthReport, please stop taking personal shots at other babblers. That's the end of it.

Brachina

 +1 North Report home run. 

 Although I personally have no problem with Unionist having an opinion on Ontario, given his reactions to those with an oninion on Quebec, I find it a funny.

NorthReport

Moderator Catchfire,

Why are you allowing a Double Standard here?

In all seriousness, should you be reclusing yourself during election campaigns?

I think it is a valid question.

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

NR, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about or what you are suggesting. Recusing myself from what? To be replaced by whom? At any rate, please open a new rabble reactions thread if you have some question or recommendation about the site itself. This discussion is about the election -- not about me, not about another babbler's opinion on Quebec politics. So get on with it.

Further comments along these lines in this thread will be removed.

terrytowel

Tonight on TVO The Agenda NDP MP Andrew Cash will be taking on PC strategist John Capobianco to debate Hudak's One Million Jobs plan.

Former MPP Marie Bountrogianni is representing the Liberals in this debate, with a former Green Party candidate rounding out this foursome.

Unionist

To return to the topic:

If Horwath wants to "save the pennies", why doesn't she do what we did in Québec (and Newfoundland & Labrador) in 1998: Eliminate the separate school system, replace it with linguistic boards, and save more than $1 billion per year?

The Greens have proposed that. Is their math correct? The idea certainly is.

 

Rokossovsky

That said NR, this proposal is just plain back-of-the-napkin stupid. We were talking about ways the NDP could define themselves in this campaign, but this really isn't it, in my opinion.

Whose idea was this?

I don't really have a problem with the idea of finding more efficient ways of using current resources, but that is different than setting a financial quota for cuts.

The problem with Liberal policy over the last 10 years, has been attempting to expand service without increasing resources. The result has been trying to deliver more services less effectively, damaging existing programs with pie-in-the-sky dream programs that the government simply can not support with the resources they need and deserve.

This creates very high public expectation, matched to shoddy delivery, which is more often that not blamed on harassed and overworked public sector workers.

The Conservatives and the Liberals are actually very similar in their method. The Conservatives pretend they can maintain service delivery at the present level, while making cuts, and the Liberals pretend they can deliver more services without increasing resources. The result is the same.

Andrea has been doing well on this more complex point, so far, but this is not the solution. She should be talking about eliminating overlap and duplication to more efficiently deliver existing program better, not doing so to save money. Savings, if there are any should be directed at better serving Ontarians, not for making cuts.

Rokossovsky

Excellent idea, Unionist. The Liberal plan is to eliminate direct democratic control of the school system by eliminating the whole idea of the school board itself. This is a project that Harris began with amalgamation in 1997, taking control of funding and eliminating PTAs and replacing them with "school councils". Phase two has been put into place now, with Bill 122 so that all negotiation for bread and butter issues happens at the top of the food chain through the OPSBTA overseen by the ministry. Phase three will be amalgamating the whole system into one bureaucracy run from the ministry.

The Liberals will then be able to claim they have eliminated the Catholic school board, and "saved" money at the same time. Better yet, once every school is Ontario is licensed and overseen by the ministry directly under the control of "parent councils", without the pesky school board trustees getting in the way, it will be a simple matter to sell the whole thing off, school by school.

Will this be the end of religious education in Ontario. Not at all! Any denomination will be able to apply for a licence from the ministry of education and "equity" will have been achieved.

josh

Hudak's economist: anti-union, non-believer in climate change, and a racist.

http://www.pressprogress.ca/en/post/5-crushing-factoids-about-tim-hudaks...

Rokossovsky

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