Ontario General Election 2014

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Rokossovsky

Bad software post

NorthReport

Most voters are not represented here at babble, but thewy are concerned about huge Liberal government waste, otherwise why do you Hudak at the moment has so much support.

It would be political suicide to not address the gigantic financial mess in Ontario created by right-wing Liberal and PC governments, and Andrea is doing just that.

In an election campaign the KISS theory works best.

Society has changed and people now want instant solutions. Ignore that at your peril.

When you start getting too fancy or too complex you lose the voters and Andrea, bless her heart,  is obviously aware of that.

Her job is to win the election and she appears to be doing a reasonably good job of that.

 

 

Rokossovsky wrote:

That said NR, this proposal is just plain back-of-the-napkin stupid. We were talking about ways the NDP could define themselves in this campaign, but this really isn't it, in my opinion.

Whose idea was this?

I don't really have a problem with the idea of finding more efficient ways of using current resources, but that is different than setting a financial quota for cuts.

The problem with Liberal policy over the last 10 years, has been attempting to expand service without increasing resources. The result has been trying to deliver more services less effectively, damaging existing programs with pie-in-the-sky dream programs that the government simply can not support with the resources they need and deserve.

This creates very high public expectation, matched to shoddy delivery, which is more often that not blamed on harassed and overworked public sector workers.

The Conservatives and the Liberals are actually very similar in their method. The Conservatives pretend they can maintain service delivery at the present level, while making cuts, and the Liberals pretend they can deliver more services without increasing resources. The result is the same.

Andrea has been doing well on this more complex point, so far, but this is not the solution. She should be talking about eliminating overlap and duplication to more efficiently deliver existing program better, not doing so to save money. Savings, if there are any should be directed at better serving Ontarians, not for making cuts.

JKR

NorthReport wrote:

Ontario now receives the 2nd highest equalization payments in Canada.

Conservatives like Harper and Hudak love to mention this but in actuality Ontario contributes $11 billion more to the other provinces than they recieve!

Of all the provinces, Ontario contributes the most into the equalization program! Ontario receives $4.5 less in equalization payments than it contributes into the program. Over the last 10 years Ontario has contributed $43 billion more into the equalization program than it has received!

 

Federal Underfunding of Ontarians | Ontario Ministry of Finance

Quote:

Since 2006, the federal government has taken more than 110 unilateral actions that have hurt people and businesses across Ontario and undermined the Province’s fiscal plan. Each and every year, the share of federal revenue raised in Ontario is higher than the share of federal spending in Ontario. This results in an $11 billion gap according to most recently available figures. In 2014–15, Ontarians will be contributing $4.5 billion more to Equalization than the Province is receiving in payments. While this money could be used in Ontario to fund more hospitals, nurses or public transit, it is redistributed to other regions of Canada to subsidize programs and services that Ontarians themselves may not enjoy.

...

Not only do imbalances exist between the federal government and provinces, but inequitable federal programs and policies also cause imbalances between Ontarians and Canadians in other provinces. According to the Mowat Centre, the people of Ontario contributed $11 billion more to the federal government than they received in return in 2009–10 (the year with the latest available data). This represents about $850 per Ontarian.

...

“Ontarians transfer approximately $11B on net to the rest of Canada. This transfer is equivalent to 1.9% of the province’s GDP. This can be referred to as the gap between what Ontarians contribute to the federal government and what is returned to the province in the form of transfers and spending.”

Noah Zon, “Filling the Gap: Measuring Ontario’s Balance with the Federation,” Mowat Centre, (2013).

...

The difference between what the people of Ontario will pay into the Equalization program through federal taxes and what the Province will receive from the program is $4.5 billion in 2014–15, and has reached $43 billion over the last 10 years.

NorthReport
radiorahim radiorahim's picture

Quote:
Most voters are not represented here at babble, but thewy are concerned about huge Liberal government waste, otherwise why do you Hudak at the moment has so much support

 

Many of us still have brains and progressive, dare i say even left-wing politics.   We aren't cheerleaders for the right-wing Blairite "geniuses" in the ONDP campaign war room.  Fuck them and the horse they road in on IMHO.

 

 

Ciabatta2

I can understand the focus on more populist measures in this era, but that's in between elections stuff.  That's hard to run a campaign on, particularly against Wynne's and Hudak who have defined themselves pretty clearly.  Plus, the campaign wasn't ready to go, there is no platform, and candidates still not nominated.  They're going to appoint a Minister to review government spending?  WTF What were they thinking?

mark_alfred

As long as the core message, that being that the NDP favours public services (IE, against privatization) and is for progressive taxation (IE, against flat taxes, user fees, consumer taxes and in favour of increasing corporate and wealth taxes), I don't get bothered by the NDP putting out mere lures for more right-wing minded voters.

I notice the NDP has changed their website.  Definitely an improvement.  And they finally have a list of candidates (though there's still some vacancies, but at least now there's a list on the site).  It was getting a bit hard to overlook that they seemed unprepared for the election, so I'm glad to see that they've updated the site.

terrytowel

Longtime Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion says she doesn't understand Andrea Horwath. When asked about NDP leader Andrea Horwath, McCallion said, “I don’t understand her policy.”

ygtbk

josh wrote:
Hudak's economist: anti-union, non-believer in climate change, and a racist.
">http://www.pressprogress.ca/en/post/5-crushing-factoids-about-tim-hudaks...

The curious can read the first chunk of Michelle Obama's Princeton thesis here and draw his or her own conclusions:

http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf

NorthReport

Exactly.

And that needs to be contrasted clearly with what Hudak who is in the lead is proposing.

But Hudak is running on a very simple message and that is how Harper gets elected federally.

You need to use the KISS theory to win.

After all the name of the game is to try and win the election. 

Otherwise tthe ONDP may as well close up shop.

mark_alfred wrote:

As long as the core message, that being that the NDP favours public services (IE, against privatization) and is for progressive taxation (IE, against flat taxes, user fees, consumer taxes and in favour of increasing corporate and wealth taxes), I don't get bothered by the NDP putting out mere lures for more right-wing minded voters.

NorthReport
ygtbk

You're supposed to warn people before linking to Kinsella.

NorthReport

Now the ONDP is cooking - yes, a much improved website.

Ontario election: NDP to launch new party website
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ontario-election-2014/ontario-election-nd...

 

mark_alfred wrote:

 

I notice the NDP has changed their website.  Definitely an improvement.  And they finally have a list of candidates (though there's still some vacancies, but at least now there's a list on the site).  It was getting a bit hard to overlook that they seemed unprepared for the election, so I'm glad to see that they've updated the site.

Pogo Pogo's picture

terrytowel wrote:

Longtime Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion says she doesn't understand Andrea Horwath. When asked about NDP leader Andrea Horwath, McCallion said, “I don’t understand her policy.”

  And at which point in her long time political career was she not a Liberal?  Sorry to be yet another to challenge you, but every post from you appears to be some hidden Liberal wisdom on how they are going to win.  That is fair enough, and sometimes a bit of cold water is helpful, but why do you continuously post how the Liberals are better organized, better connected and better supported while also saying you don't support them.

NorthReport

"Makes Sense"  Smile

The ONDP support a living wage of 14 bucks an hour, but understands how, in many places, small businesses can't afford that but would love to pay their employees that.

So they'll start at 12 bucks and as the economy picks up steam, shops local to sustain communities, and can increase it so that we can all participate in society. 

 

mark_alfred

I was chatting with a worker on the Hudak campaign last night.  Very friendly person.  She says that within the ranks, workers from all three parties often get together for drinks.  She also stated that everyone from all three political parties were scrambling to get ready when it was apparent that an election was called.  No one party was anymore prepared than the other, she felt.  She doesn't know how the election will turn out, but when I speculated that the NDP might not do well in Toronto, she said so far no one has counted out the NDP there within her ranks.  To her credit, she (on the surface) is a lot more open to lefties than I find many lefties are to right-wingers such as she.  In fact, when she first told me she was a worker on the Hudak campaign, I said (three times over), "Okay, stop kidding around.... where do you really work?"  I guess the fact that she didn't have green reptilian skin, fangs, and breath of fire threw me.

terrytowel

Pogo wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

Longtime Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion says she doesn't understand Andrea Horwath. When asked about NDP leader Andrea Horwath, McCallion said, “I don’t understand her policy.”

  And at which point in her long time political career was she not a Liberal?  Sorry to be yet another to challenge you, but every post from you appears to be some hidden Liberal wisdom on how they are going to win.  That is fair enough, and sometimes a bit of cold water is helpful, but why do you continuously post how the Liberals are better organized, better connected and better supported while also saying you don't support them.

In her 35 some odd years years in office, Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion has been staunchly non-partisan, not belonging to any one party. She has never bought a membership in any party. She is an Independent who supports the person, not the party.

She is not endorsing the Liberals per say, she is endoring Kathleen Wynne. She separates the person, from the party.

mark_alfred

She generally leans right.  I think she did support Barbara Hall over Mel Lastman, though (Hall being a left-leaning Lib, and Lastman being Lastman).

terrytowel

I thought Barbara Hall was NDP? What is great about Municipal politics is the non-partisan aspect of working together, without the straight-jackets of party politics. Crossing party lines. As an Indpendent I support the person, not the party. Which is why I tend to go back and forth between NDP, Liberals & Green.

NorthReport

Actually everyone deserves respect.

 

Link

Ontario NDP Leader Andrea Horwath spending is sending a message nobody expected any NDP leader to send on the provincial election campaign trail: Taxpayers deserve respect.

She's backing that message up with a few good ideas. She would impose a cap on the lavish six-figure salaries of public sector CEOs. She would find "waste and overlap" within the provincial government and flush it out. She would remove the HST from Ontarians' already outrageous hydro bills. And she would shrink the size of cabinet from 26 to 18.


 

NorthReport

NDP Propose Cutting Small Business TaxesPosted 15 May 2014 by James Murray in Featured

 

  0 0 0 0

 

Andrea Horwath flanked by Mary Kozorys and Andrew Foulds talks about the Ontario Budget

Andrea Horwath flanked by Mary Kozorys and Andrew Foulds talks about the Ontario Budget

Minimum Wage Hike in Platform- See more at: http://www.netnewsledger.com/2014/05/15/politics-ndp-propose-cutting-sma...

 

 

http://www.netnewsledger.com/2014/05/15/politics-ndp-propose-cutting-sma...

addictedtomyipod

mark_alfred wrote:

....  I guess the fact that she didn't have green reptilian skin, fangs, and breath of fire threw me.

 

LOL.  Thanks for this laugh of the day.  

Rokossovsky

NorthReport wrote:

It would be political suicide to not address the gigantic financial mess in Ontario created by right-wing Liberal and PC governments, and Andrea is doing just that.

In an election campaign the KISS theory works best.

That is precisely why she should double down on the simple fact that ALL of the great financial boondoggles represented by the Liberal Party are their failed atttempts to privatize services through P3s on the false premise they will save money. They don't. They open up the public to liability of private sector failure, as has been shown time and time again.

Rokossovsky

This is a mistep, not necessarily fatal. She has gained no momentum from this, and still has time to define herself.

NorthReport

Andrea is doing a great job. She has not yet released her platform which is brilliant.

The elcetion is still a snooze - She will do it on her own timeline. 

She had taken this, ever since Bob Rae, dead party, and finally brought it back into contention and I applaud her very much for that.

It is not that previously the ONDP teams and supporters were not not doing a good job, but for a long, long time, the NDP has been wearing that right wing Liberal Bob Rae albatross around its neck.

NorthReport

It's the correct strategy.

It is an unusually long election - right now folks are watching the Habs.

Today we were presented with a brand spanking new ONDP website.  

Link

Andrea will release the platform when she decides it will have maximum effect.

Hopefully it be be very short and simple, perhaps maximum five significant points, as the average voter has limited time for this crap.

But this is the correct approach.

Rokossovsky wrote:

This is a mistep, not necessarily fatal. She has gained no momentum from this, and still has time to define herself.

mark_alfred

You're welcome, addictedtomyipod. 

NorthReport wrote:

Actually everyone deserves respect.

Link

From the above link I found a pretty interesting video link.  It had Adam Giambrone on the video, and he did really well.  It's interesting that they're giving the NDP this amount of time in their coverage.  Admittedly, because it's Sun News, it may be just an attempt to prop up the NDP to the detriment of the currently more competitive Libs (which, if another Orange Crush begins, would quickly change to very negative coverage).  Still, it's very good that they're getting this coverage.  The idea that the NDP is more right wing than the Libs is laughable, but to those who don't closely follow things and may be leery of left wing policies, it's a good selling point.  And Giambrone is right -- if you have a reckless corrupt government like the current Liberal government, then social programs will suffer.

There's been criticism of the NDP appearing (or from some, being) too right wing in this campaign.  I don't notice that there's anything significantly different from what Hampton was advocating, though.  Hampton's main focus was keeping Ontario's power generation public, with his whole Public Power campaign.  Horwath has not deviated from this.  Hampton advocated higher taxes on wealthy.  Horwath threatened to pull the plug on the Liberals in a past budget if they did not raise a surtax on the wealthy instead of freezing social assistance.  She did this shortly after the federal NDP rejected Topp and chose Mulcair, who had ruled out raising taxes on the wealthy.  So, even though NDP members across the nation had rejected this, she still stuck to it, and that courageous action changed the dialogue of taxation in this province.  Also, she's consistently opposed increasing flat taxes (IE, consumption taxes like the HST), and has been in support of progressive taxation and increasing corporate taxes (a letter was sent to Wynne about this before the last budget, which Wynne rejected -- Libs are beholden to corporate interests -- that's why they have a four million dollar war chest compared to the NDP's measly 900 grand, because Libs get most of their donations from big corporations).  Like Hampton she has pushed for realistic raises to the minimum wage, along with pushing for it to be indexed to inflation (the NDP are the only party to propose raising the min wage to over twice the rate of inflation for two years -- I discuss this in more detail here -- this would lead to min wage workers earning over an extra $1000 per year than they would under the Libs).  She's also pushed for social assistance raises to be regular and indexed to inflation, whereas the Libs have cut various aspects of social assistance, like the start up allowance or the special diet supplement, and have advocated freezes of rates.  The Libs are no friend of the poor.

I recall hating one of Hampton's campaigns.  The ads showed some homeless person, and encouraged us to feel guilty.  They were reminiscent of various charity ads.  I thought, "Sure, I'll vote for you, but what are you going to do for me?"  No answer was forthcoming in Hampton's campaign, as I recall.  People need to be able to say, "My life will be better with this party in power."  There is no reason to vote for any party if you cannot say, "My life will be better with this party in power." 

Horwath's assessments of the Liberals as liars who promise so much but deliver so little is something that seems so blatantly obvious (oh, like McGuinty promising to raise corporate taxes and then instead lowering them when he achieved power, or like Chretien promising to do away with Free Trade but then signing NAFTA when he was in power, or like.....) and yet, people feel betrayed when she calls the Liberals on their BULLSHIT and thankfully pulls the plug on them.  What's wrong with these people?

Whatever it is that is wrong with these people, it just seems to continue and continue in Ontario (and Canada, for that matter).  I dunno.  I do know though that I wear my Andrea Horwath button with pride.

NorthReport

Excellent mark_alfred.

Andrea is by far the most effective NDP leader in the country after Tom.

And speaking of leadership Tom really impressed during that BS HoC witchhunt today.

It would not surprise me when Tom has has his fill as federal NDP leader, to see Andrea run against Nathan Cullen for the federal NDP leadership.

And Andrea might win, but first things first, eh!   Smile

mark_alfred

Agreed.  They're both great.  But as you say, first things first.

Unionist

[url=http://theagenda.tvo.org/blog/agenda-blogs/steve-paikin-green-party-prom... Green Party Promise That Could Shake Up The Ontario Campaign[/url]

Nice that someone has the guts to do the right thing.

 

terrytowel

Howard Hampton will be making a rare TV apperance on The Agenda tonight at 8PM to discuss Andrea's plan on the LCBO and the Beer Store in Onatrio.

mark_alfred

terrytowel wrote:

Howard Hampton will be making a rare TV apperance on The Agenda tonight at 8PM to discuss Andrea's plan on the LCBO and the Beer Store in Onatrio.

Thanks for letting us know.  That will be interesting to see.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Unionist wrote:

[url=http://theagenda.tvo.org/blog/agenda-blogs/steve-paikin-green-party-prom... Green Party Promise That Could Shake Up The Ontario Campaign[/url]

Nice that someone has the guts to do the right thing.

 

  Why is this a display of guts.  Its not like they have any potential votes to lose.

terrytowel

mark_alfred wrote:

She generally leans right.  I think she did support Barbara Hall over Mel Lastman, though (Hall being a left-leaning Lib, and Lastman being Lastman).

On a side note Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam has tabled a proposal at Toronto and East York Community Council to rename Cawthra Square Park, in the heart of the Church-Wellesley Village neighbourhood, after former Toronto mayor Barbara Hall.

http://dailyxtra.com/toronto/news/councillor-wants-rename-cawthra-park-b...

Unionist

Pogo wrote:

Unionist wrote:

[url=http://theagenda.tvo.org/blog/agenda-blogs/steve-paikin-green-party-prom... Green Party Promise That Could Shake Up The Ontario Campaign[/url]

Nice that someone has the guts to do the right thing.

 

  Why is this a display of guts.  Its not like they have any potential votes to lose.

Oh you're right, I misspoke. What it really is, is an exposure of the abject cowardice of the ONDP, which is scared shitless to promote a single secular public school system. Thanks for framing it in selfish partisan terms.

 

Rokossovsky

Unionist wrote:

Pogo wrote:

Unionist wrote:

[url=http://theagenda.tvo.org/blog/agenda-blogs/steve-paikin-green-party-prom... Green Party Promise That Could Shake Up The Ontario Campaign[/url]

Nice that someone has the guts to do the right thing.

 

  Why is this a display of guts.  Its not like they have any potential votes to lose.

Oh you're right, I misspoke. What it really is, is an exposure of the abject cowardice of the ONDP, which is scared shitless to promote a single secular public school system. Thanks for framing it in selfish partisan terms.

 

The problem is a little more complex than this, because what is being developed in the "secular system" basically eliminates local control in favour of centralized control by the ministry.

So, while you are objectively right, as single secular school system is ethically right, the reality is that much of the grass roots defense of institutions such as the Catholic Board has little to do with religion, but is a reaction of anxious communities who do not want to see their school board subsumed into a faceless bureaucracy managed by the ministry through performance rubrics that are not sensitive to local needs.

The Catholic boards, which are generally smaller and insulated by their special status have a unique ability to deliver education that is more responsive to the needs of the parents and students within it. One of the reasons many non-Catholic parents prefer it to the secular system, which is systematically being strangled by and ever increasing flow of measurable "results-based" performance regulations, and impossible to achieve performance targets, and curriculum devised in New York, while at the same time being de-funded.

For example, the Toronto District School Board just issued a new "Years of Action 2013-2017" plan that basically amounts to setting a set of targets for increased grade scores, without providing any resources at all to back it up -- basically a plan that invites teachers to make up marks in order to make the board look better, downloading the liability for performance onto teachers without giving them any extra support, and asserting impossible to achieve targets that make front-line staff liable for systemic failure.

Thus, in such an atmosphere, it is not surprising at all that adherents of the Catholic system, Catholic and non-Catholic alike a jealously hanging onto their local autonomy, in the face of exposing their children to the sausage factory that is becoming "public education" in Ontario.

Just thought I would put your idealism into the context of the real struggle to save the concept of free public education in Ontario. Your idealism is commendable however.

Reminding you that the very first step on the path to the kind of privatization that the backers of the Liberal Party of Ontario have in mind for the "Public School system" in Ontario (after they have sold of what remains of Ontario Hydro and the LCBO so that they can sugar coat their budgets with a few paltry social spending investments) is making the Public Service asset so dysfunctional through underfunding that the public wants to sell it.

Orangutan

mark_alfred wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

I thought Barbara Hall was NDP? What is great about Municipal politics is the non-partisan aspect of working together, without the straight-jackets of party politics. Crossing party lines. As an Indpendent I support the person, not the party. Which is why I tend to go back and forth between NDP, Liberals & Green.

She may be.  From the election that saw Miller elected, I assumed he was NDP, Hall was Liberal, and Tory was Conservative.  But, as you say, there's really not political parties in municipal politics.  Anyway, I pointed it out in support of your argument that McCallion, whom I view as primarily Conservative, will occasionally support others of different political parties or persuasions.  That said, your statement ...

Quote:

She is not endorsing the Liberals per say, she is endoring Kathleen Wynne. She separates the person, from the party.

... is silly.  She's clearly endorsing the party in this election by endorsing the leader.

Barbara was originally an NDP member when she was a city councillor.  She was a Liberal (officially or unofficially, not sure) when she was mayor and when she ran in 2003.  George Smitherman was her Chief of Staff when mayor.  Not sure what (if any) her affiliations are now.  

mark_alfred

Here's a video of Andrea Horwath being interviewed by Amanda Lang on Lang & O'Leary:  link

onlinediscountanvils

[url=http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/15/ontario_ndp_sheds_r... NDP sheds role as champion of the poor[/url]

Right on schedule, Ontario’s churches, charities, social activists and anti-poverty advocates issued a [url=http://isarc.ca/?p=435]statement[/url] in the second week of the provincial election campaign, reminding candidates that more than a million Ontarians can’t afford food, safe housing and other basic necessities.

As usual, it received scant attention from the party leaders, the candidates and the media.

But this time, there was something different. The New Democrats, to whom the disadvantaged have always looked for support, were the least responsive of the three parties. Their leader, Andrea Horwath, is so preoccupied with winning middle-class votes, assuring the business community she would be a responsible economic manager and saving tax dollars that she has scarcely said a word about poverty, homelessness, hunger, low wages or stingy social programs.

mark_alfred

terrytowel wrote:

I thought Barbara Hall was NDP? What is great about Municipal politics is the non-partisan aspect of working together, without the straight-jackets of party politics. Crossing party lines. As an Indpendent I support the person, not the party. Which is why I tend to go back and forth between NDP, Liberals & Green.

She may be.  From the election that saw Miller elected, I assumed he was NDP, Hall was Liberal, and Tory was Conservative.  But, as you say, there's really not political parties in municipal politics.  Anyway, I pointed it out in support of your argument that McCallion, whom I view as primarily Conservative, will occasionally support others of different political parties or persuasions.  That said, your statement ...

Quote:

She [McCallion] is not endorsing the Liberals per say, she is endoring Kathleen Wynne. She separates the person, from the party.

... is silly.  She's clearly endorsing the party in this election by endorsing the leader.

Rokossovsky

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

[url=http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/15/ontario_ndp_sheds_r... NDP sheds role as champion of the poor[/url]

Right on schedule, Ontario’s churches, charities, social activists and anti-poverty advocates issued a [url=http://isarc.ca/?p=435]statement[/url] in the second week of the provincial election campaign, reminding candidates that more than a million Ontarians can’t afford food, safe housing and other basic necessities.

As usual, it received scant attention from the party leaders, the candidates and the media.

But this time, there was something different. The New Democrats, to whom the disadvantaged have always looked for support, were the least responsive of the three parties. Their leader, Andrea Horwath, is so preoccupied with winning middle-class votes, assuring the business community she would be a responsible economic manager and saving tax dollars that she has scarcely said a word about poverty, homelessness, hunger, low wages or stingy social programs.

Interesting article. Notably absent from it were any quotes from said "churches, charities, social activists and anti-poverty advocates", noting how they had been abandoned by the NDP, only the bald assertion of a Toronto Star editorialist echoing the sentiments reflected in Rick Salutin's preposterous hatchet job, feeding off the brick-a-brac whining of a few "leftist" bloggers.

The intention of course of said bloggers is that I support of a budget that is nothing but a sugar coated privatization bomb, to forward the cause of "socialism", and replace this guy with a Liberal bench warmer, and corporate stooge, because it is "strategic".

I read it in the paper, it must be true. High humour, indeed.

Rokossovsky

Number of "op-eds" by Carol Goar in the Toronto Star where the opinions of the Ontario Federation of Labour are worth writing about?

One.

Aristotleded24

Rokossovsky wrote:
Notably absent from it were any quotes from said "churches, charities, social activists and anti-poverty advocates", noting how they had been abandoned by the NDP, only the bald assertion of a Toronto Star editorialist echoing the sentiments reflected in Rick Salutin's preposterous hatchet job, feeding off the brick-a-brac whining of a few "leftist" bloggers.

The actual quote, if you click the link in the article, is as follows:

Quote:
“We are perplexed that the Opposition parties were able to support an austerity budget in 2012, yet were unwilling to support a progressive budget in 2014 that raised social assistance rates, indexed the minimum wage, increased the Ontario Child Benefit, provided affordable housing funds, and raised wages for many low-income workers,” says the Rev. Susan Eagle, the coalition’s Chair. “We challenge both Opposition parties to tell us, the people of Ontario, what exactly they oppose in the 2014 budget and how they plan to reduce poverty."

Rokossovsky
Rokossovsky

"But this time, there was something different. The New Democrats, to whom the disadvantaged have always looked for support, were the least responsive of the three parties."

What?

Goar's proposition is that something has changed. But the letter clearly states that the NDP supported what the letter writer says was an "austeriry budget" in 2012. Should not supporting the 2012 "austerity budget" have left, "left MPPs such Cheri DiNovo, a longtime advocate of the vulnerable and marginalized, without a social justice platform to stand on?" Then not now?

Well, no, I guess... because they supported the Liberals then, not now. Now, is different.

Goar's proposition that "this time something is different" is not supported by the statement. It is seriously garbled and politicized with Goar's own editorial musings. If anything, DiNovo would have been left "without a social justice platform in 2012", if as the statement says the NDP supported 2012 "austerity budget", but not this, allegedly progressive one. 

The NDP voted for the 2012 "austerity budget" but now the "poor" have been "abandoned". But not last time when they supported the "austerity budget"? None of this makes any sense, in Goar's framing.

She opines that this time the NDP were "the least responsive of the three". Where is that supported by the statement?

And for this, Goar takes part in the plan to try and sweep all of the "left MPPs", Marchese, DiNovo and Schien from the slate of Toronto downtown core representatives, and replace them with corporate sock-puppets.

[edit: Also the "Opposition parties" did not support the 2012 budget. The NDP and the Liberals did. In 2012, the Conservatives voted against, but that apparent political ignorance of the writer is neither here nor there.]

JKR

NorthReport wrote:
Most voters are not represented here at babble, but thewy are concerned about huge Liberal government waste, otherwise why do you Hudak at the moment has so much support.

It would be political suicide to not address the gigantic financial mess in Ontario created by right-wing Liberal and PC governments, and Andrea is doing just that.

Supporting the idea that government is wasteful also supports the ideas that :

- government programs should be reduced
- government revenues and taxes should be reduced
- the public sector should be reduced in size
- public private partnerships should replace the public sector

The idea that government is wasteful supports the basic position taken by the right-wing and leads to right-wing government policies, no matter what party is in government.

Rokossovsky

I think this is more a problem of fuzzy packaging. Reading the latest missive from the NDP, and Rosario's FB page, makes me think Andrea's cautious lack of clarity and deliberate distortion by the press are contributing to misconceptions about what the intent is.

Horwath has to be clear on the issues, if as the NDP is now saying the focus of this idea is eliminating the process of privatization, and reigning in wasteful spending caused by P3s then she needs to say that.

Andrea has to recognize that she is facing an extremely hostile press, and keep her messaging tight. They are jumping on everything.

JKR

Maybe Horwath is being clear? From out here in BC I don"t have a good handle on Ontario politics, but my impression of Horwath from here on the left-coast is that her positions coincide mostly with the right-wing side of the NDP. It seems to me she would probably also be comfortable on the left-wing side of the Ontario Liberals. But then again, maybe she'll clarify her positions on the issues and take more traditional social-democratic positions? After seeing the policies of recent NDP provincial governments, I wouldn't be shocked if the Ontario NDP also wasn't very social-democratic but mostly "centrist". Here in BC the BC NDP is centrist which makes some sense considering we have a two-party system here.

onlinediscountanvils

JKR wrote:
Maybe Horwath is being clear? From out here in BC I don"t have a good handle on Ontario politics, but my impression of Horwath from here on the left-coast is that her positions coincide mostly with the right-wing side of the NDP. It seems to me she would probably also be comfortable on the left-wing side of the Ontario Liberals. But then again, maybe she'll clarify her positions on the issues and take more traditional social-democratic positions? After seeing the policies of recent NDP provincial governments, I wouldn't be shocked if the Ontario NDP also wasn't very social-democratic but mostly "centrist". Here in BC the BC NDP is centrist which makes some sense considering we have a two-party system here.

That's the impression of many people here in Ontario too.

It'll be interesting to see who Horwath supports if the Tories and Liberals end up in a tie.

ygtbk

Unionist wrote:

[url=http://theagenda.tvo.org/blog/agenda-blogs/steve-paikin-green-party-prom... Green Party Promise That Could Shake Up The Ontario Campaign[/url]

Nice that someone has the guts to do the right thing.

I agree with you. But the last major party leader to try to address religious school funding was John Tory (he tried to open it up, on the theory that Catholicism was one of many denominations, so fund one, fund all) and he got - ahem - crucified for it.

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