Ontario General Election 2014

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Brachina

http://m.thestar.com/#!/canada/ontario-election-conservatives-liberals-n...

 

 I think that the NDP has a real shot at this riding and that Wynn's best assest in the riding is Tim Hudak.

toaster

Whoever was in charge of the NDP decisions this election needs to be fired.  The ONDP was in a good place coming into this election, but moving the party to one of populism was not a good idea.  Heck, even I am almost convinced that voting Liberal to stop Hudak is the best option at this point.  Let's hope the debates can change things. 

mark_alfred

About ten years ago the three of them were on Studio 2 with Paula Todd:  link  Perhaps a preview of the debates?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

mark_alfred wrote:
Ad from the NDP.  It's okay, but I found the narrator's voice a bit irritating.

That is a great advertisement for Tim Hudak.

Centre_leftist

I'd still rather have a populist NDP in power, over a Liberal Party that ALWAYS flashes left, then turns right.

Plus, when did "populism" become inherently right-wing? Tommy Douglas and the CCF were populists.

My only problem with the NDP (and all parties, frankly) is this obsession with the so-called "middle class" (a class which no one seems to know how to define).
It's all about "families" and the "middle class". Whatever happened to the poor, and those suffering the most from the status-quo? Also, do single people not matter? I hate this drivel, pandering to "families".

As for Hudak, I can't get over the fact that he is actually actively campaigning on throwing 100,000 people out of work!

Someone at Tory headquarters needs to muzzle the man's mouth shut.

For Ontario's sake, I hope he keeps talking...

As Gerry Caplan said: "A Conservative 'hat-trick', with Ford, Hudak and Harper; surely Ontario would never inflict such a dystopia on itself.." Oh, you'd be surprised, Gerry....

http://ammarior.blogspot.ca/2014/05/ontario-votes-2014.html 

 

Centre_leftist

http://ammarior.blogspot.ca/2014/05/ontario-votes-2014.html 

Good point about the Ontario Greens and the Ontario NDP and the characteristics of the Ontario voter since the 1990's..

Rokossovsky

Centre_leftist wrote:

As for Hudak, I can't get over the fact that he is actually actively campaigning on throwing 100,000 people out of work!

Someone at Tory headquarters needs to muzzle the man's mouth shut.

Maybe people will wake up to the fact that the Liberals have stolen all the "reasonable" sounding policy planks from the Tories, leaving Hudak with nothing but crazy talk.

The media is doing a good job of covering up how bad this budget really was, proposing large asset sales and privatization for upfront cash to fund small social assistance hikes, and infrastructure expansion.

ctrl190

So much for "no negative advertising"

This was dropped in my mail box in Trinity-Spadina this morning:

Rokossovsky

Creepy.

Rokossovsky

As we can see the real object of the Torstar attack is to wipe out the last of the progressive left representatives in the Toronot core, and shut the left out of Ontario altogether.

Centre_leftist

Rokossovsky wrote:

As we can see the real object of the Torstar attack is to wipe out the last of the progressive left representatives in the Toronot core, and shut the left out of Ontario altogether.

 

No no... the goal of the Toronto Star is to shill for the capital L Liberal Party. They are partisan hacks. If the Liberals become a Marxist party or turn into the Nazi Fascist Party, the Toronto Star will still shill for them.

This isn't about ideaological bias; it's about partisanship.

The one abberration that the Toronto Star endorsed the Jack Layton NDP in 2011 gave me a glimmer of hope; but since then, all of their coverage of politics has become even more hyper-partisan pro-Liberal Party.

Rokossovsky

THe only reason the Star endorsed Layton, was because Iggy was tanking.

Centre_leftist

Rokossovsky wrote:

THe only reason the Star endorsed Layton, was because Iggy was tanking.

 

You're probably right. Sigh... thanks for dashing my naive, wild-eyed hope Tongue out.
Why can't the REAL left (anything NDP and further left) come together, which would create the financial ability that we are currently lacking, to come up with a mouthpiece of our own.
The CBC, Toronto Star, Sun, National Post ... all the current mainstream media is either partisan or ideologically politically aligned, somehow. Either to a political party (Toronto Star and SUN News), or to an ideology (National Post..etc). We could fight them on their turf.

You would think that by now, the 21st century, we would be living in an enlightened socialist utopia.
It's hard to believe that the dystopia we are living in hasn't ignited a giant revolution.

The Liberals are a big part of the problem, electorally-speaking:

Their strategy is to quietly continue the far-right policies that have gotten us into this mess, but to throw a few crumbs and scraps towards the left, so as to give the illusion of incremental progressive reforms, and to "placate the peasants" to keep them from revolting...

They are almost more dangerous than the Conversatives, because at least the Conservative's contempt for the average citizen is avowed, unabashed and unhidden.
They do not attempt to hide it; in fact, they are proud of it, and wear it as their raison d'etre with pride.

The Liberals, however, have become wolves in sheep clothing.
The days of Pierre Trudeau were somewhat more bearable.
Now, they have become a party that is attempting to rewrite the definition of "progressive".
They are moving their beloved so-called political centre further and further right, becoming more and more brazen with the passage of time, while reinforcing the complete bullcrap of "we ARE progressives; this is the new progressivism". It's dangerous. They aren't just "neoliberals", they are neo-Liberals (with a capital 'L')..
In partisan terms, neoliberalism has become the identity of neo-Liberals.

But seriously, the Ontario NDP is missing out on a chunk of the electorate that would help build a coalition of voters that could bring them to power..

Read this: http://ammarior.blogspot.ca/2014/05/ontario-votes-2014.html ; I am convinced that this notion of an untapped electoral resource is correct. Voters who would normally never vote for the same party would unwittingly come together under the ONDP banner in this context...

terrytowel

Tonight on TVO The Agenda they examine the Economic Promises of the three parties.  The Globe and Mail Senior Economics Writer Brian Milner and CBC Toronto's Provincial Affairs Reporter Genevieve Tomney will be the guests tonight.

Then the middle class is discussed with Armine Yalnizyan, Andrew Coyne and Mike Moffatt.

Later this week

Tuesday - The parties platform on healthcare.

Wednesday - Green Party of Ontario Leader Mike Schreiner Plus The parties platform on the Environment.

Thursday - The parties' platform on Hydro and electricity.

Centre_leftist

terrytowel wrote:

Tonight on TVO The Agenda they examine the Economic Promises of the three parties.  The Globe and Mail Senior Economics Writer Brian Milner and CBC Toronto's Provincial Affairs Reporter Genevieve Tomney will be the guests tonight.

Then the middle class is discussed with Armine Yalnizyan, Andrew Coyne and Mike Moffatt.

Later this week

Tuesday - The parties platform on healthcare.

Wednesday - Green Party of Ontario Leader Mike Schreiner Plus The parties platform on the Environment.

Thursday - The parties' platform on Hydro and electricity.

 

What time is The Agenda on tonight, again?

Also, as a relatively new rabble-rouser, I was wondering how to set this thing to send me an e-mail notification everytime someone answers one of my posts. I tried the settings, but I was unsuccessful..

 

Thanks!

Skinny Dipper

Centre_leftist wrote:

http://ammarior.blogspot.ca/2014/05/ontario-votes-2014.html 

Good point about the Ontario Greens and the Ontario NDP and the characteristics of the Ontario voter since the 1990's..

I enjoyed reading this blogpost.

I have to wonder why Andrea Horwath chose auto insurance, having an accountability office, and offering tax credits to small businesses that create jobs as the most important issues.  Not everyone drives a car.  As for the accountability office, voters may not always be interested about issues that don't affect them directly.  It's a policy-wonk issue.  Then again, I think these three issues are an attempt by Andrea Horwath to reach out to a different kind of voter that lives in suburban or medium-city Ontario.  These issues could have been proposed by any of the political party leaders.

If I had wanted the Ontario NDP to reach out to "middle-class" Ontario, I would have offered five-key middle-of the-road campaign points that would somehow be connected with each other.  For example, I would have proposed something on the personal economic well-being of families such as income and sales tax restructuring, an economic jobs and investment plan, and things on health, education, and the environment.  Within each category, I would have offered progressive sub-points that promotes the social democratic values of the Ontario NDP.  That way, the party could attempt to gain new voters while maintaining the loyalty of the progressive base.

Skinny Dipper

Centre_leftist wrote:

What time is The Agenda on tonight, again?

Also, as a relatively new rabble-rouser, I was wondering how to set this thing to send me an e-mail notification everytime someone answers one of my posts. I tried the settings, but I was unsuccessful..

 

Thanks!

The Agenda is on TVO at 8 p.m.  It usually repeats at 11 p.m. and 5 a.m.

Centre_leftist

Skinny Dipper wrote:

Centre_leftist wrote:

http://ammarior.blogspot.ca/2014/05/ontario-votes-2014.html 

Good point about the Ontario Greens and the Ontario NDP and the characteristics of the Ontario voter since the 1990's..

I enjoyed reading this blogpost.

I have to wonder why Andrea Horwath chose auto insurance, having an accountability office, and offering tax credits to small businesses that create jobs as the most important issues.  Not everyone drives a car.  As for the accountability office, voters may not always be interested about issues that don't affect them directly.  It's a policy-wonk issue.  Then again, I think these three issues are an attempt by Andrea Horwath to reach out to a different kind of voter that lives in suburban or medium-city Ontario.  These issues could have been proposed by any of the political party leaders.

If I had wanted the Ontario NDP to reach out to "middle-class" Ontario, I would have offered five-key middle-of the-road campaign points that would somehow be connected with each other.  For example, I would have proposed something on the personal economic well-being of families such as income and sales tax restructuring, an economic jobs and investment plan, and things on health, education, and the environment.  Within each category, I would have offered progressive sub-points that promotes the social democratic values of the Ontario NDP.  That way, the party could attempt to gain new voters while maintaining the loyalty of the progressive base.

 

I agree.
I do, however, think it's smart that Horwath is not attacking the Liberals' corruption as heavily as one might expect.
My reasoning being is that I get the feeling (and the polls speak to this to a certain degree) that voters are mad at the Liberals for the scandals, but they don't necessarily feel angry enough to want to punish them severely enough for a party to campaign heavily and rely solely on attacking the Liberal's corruption.
This is why I do like the "time-out" and "penalty box" messaging more than a message about "getting rid of them" or "wiping them off the electoral map".
Whether this is just a coincidence, or Horwath and the Ontario NDP have realized this and are acting accordingly is anyone's guess, but I'm glad they're doing it.

I like your idea about the five planks. I think it would work by creating a new coalition of voters to unite behind the ONDP banner.
Also, since the ONDP seem to be following Harper's 2006 strategy of "a policy a day throughout the campaign" (as opposed to just rolling it all out all at once), who knows? Perhaps Horwath HAS come up with something similar in a push for that coalition.

However, if she doesn't go in that direction, another coalition of voters could be forged by sticking to the economic message she's been using, while also tapping in to the socially-progressive (socially-liberal) voter chunk of the electorate, much like the Chretien Liberals did in the 90's (as was mentioned in the article previously mentioned).
The populist rhetoric of recent would work well with that.

Frankly, I don't care either way whether the ONDP is trying to include the centre to broaden its base. I still would rather see them in office over the "flash left, turn right", corrupt and lying Liberals or the batshit Progressive Conservatives (Forward Backward Party).
Any party that wins the election will be expected to govern from SOMEWHERE in the middle-road, while throwing some scraps towards the applicable side of the spectrum (depending on which party it is) so as to not alienate its core supporters and commit political suicide, and also for reasons of principle/ideology pertaining to the party's raison d'etre.
Because of that, I'd rather that the party in power at least be one which would be the most likely to throw those scraps towards the left.
I'm in no way endorsing this or even saying that I like it, but this IS the situation we currently are dealing with, and the system we have for now, and that is the best result one can hope for until we can change this awful system to be one that is truly for the people.

In all honesty, this is the first provincial Ontario NDP that has produced a leader that I actually like. I find Andrea Horwath to be very genuine and likeable. I also believe that she IS a socialist (especially as per comments she's made in interviews like The Agenda when she first was elected as leader, or with the Toronto Star); but, she's just realized that, in order to win power, she will have to reach outside the traditional base of supporters.

infracaninophile infracaninophile's picture

Centre_leftist wrote:
she's just realized that, in order to win power, she will have to reach outside the traditional base of supporters.

 

Andrea is probably as genuine and likable as you say (I haven't met her personally) but then, so are many Cons, as far as that goes. Apparently Jim Flaherty was genuine and likable (genuinely wrong, too) but I wouldn't have cast a vote for him in a month of Sundays.

However, I think she is ignoring the "traditional base" at the party's peril. I'll likely vote NDP regardless, but it doesn't matter who I vote for because the Libs will carry this riding. However, I find myself totally unengaged in her "message" and she is saying nothing whatever to address what I consider the real issues facing us -- especially the growing inequality, erosion of environmental and education standards, long-term care fo seniors and the scandal of the corporate welfare bums (only Hudak, of all people, is taking a disingenuous pot-shot at them).

If many of the "base" feel anything like I do, there will be far fewer casting votes or getting out the vote and this could backfire on Andrea's strategy. I hope I'm wrong but I do not feel optimistic about this election. At all.

Ciabatta2

I completely understand the rationale to go to election now – there’s going to be an election either now, fall 2014 or spring 2015.  Nothing in this budget will get implemented within that timeframe, political guarantees or not.  Waiting longer for an election just increases the likelihood of a PC win.  Go now, hope Wynne gets a minority, and once she’s got a mandate then the NDP can work with her for 3 years .

I get that the NDP can’t go out and campaign on that because it is difficult to explain and looks really weak and puts Hudak in a position of power, but the fact the NDP had no prepared slate of candidates, no platform, no raison d’etre for this campaign is an embarrassment.  Whether it’s the “none of this is gonna get done, elected us to get it done” or the “privatization bomb” or “it’s time for government to do things that make a difference to you” – whatever.  It doesn’t matter.  There should be an overarching narrative that’s coherent and relevant.  The fact that there isn’t one is humiliating.  If you weren’t negotiating about the budget, then what have the NDP been doing in advance of this election call?  And Hudak positioning himself as the candidate of hope?  What the heck has the NDP been doing?  This situation was not a surprise. 

The communications the party is putting out has some of the most canned messaging that it’s embarrassing to think that things this inane are going out to people under the names of sitting NDP MPPs.  I feel for a Gilles Bisson or Catherine Fife - if they ever received some of the emails that went out in their names they’d cringe.  The move to pocketbook and small-time politics I think is actually quite astute, but it needs to be tied together in a way that the good bits (like the school closing stuff) is not forgotten within the larger context of the election.  Forget the scandals, even people who don't pay attention know about them.  This whole thing has been implemented so poorly it’s going to backfire spectacularly for the NDP.

 

Tirumithir

infracaninophile wrote:
If many of the "base" feel anything like I do, there will be far fewer casting votes or getting out the vote and this could backfire on Andrea's strategy. I hope I'm wrong but I do not feel optimistic about this election. At all.

I feel exactly the same way.  I'll be voting NDP because I like Michael Prue.  But this time around, I won't be giving the party money or helping out on E-day.

I don't care about auto insurance, but both the Minister of Savings and lowering small-business taxes seem like the sort low-brow populism that one would expect from a Hudak not a Horwath.  Give me some real policy, please!

Rokossovsky

I agree that this 10% better than the Liberals "boutique" policy announcements are far from invigorating.

What I don't understand is why the ONDP is not focusing on the privatization and its relationship to these spending scandals. To me a cohesive platform can be simply constructed around this issue.

*P3s are about guaranteed profits for the private sector backed by the taxpayers wallet.

*It is the worst of both worlds.

*All of the major Liberal scandals can be sourced to privatization.

*The Tories plan more of the same.

Perhaps they will pick up the pace in the last two weeks of the campaign. I am not expecting a lot from the ONDP, but hope they might at least stop the bleeding of government revenue to the private sector, and wholesale tax cutting. Privatization, asset sales and outsourcing are which key theme in the Liberal budget -- they want to sell and privatize to cover infrastructure construction. This time out its called "alternative financing" and "asset recycling".

Pogo Pogo's picture

Ciabatta2 wrote:

I completely understand the rationale to go to election now – there’s going to be an election either now, fall 2014 or spring 2015.  Nothing in this budget will get implemented within that timeframe, political guarantees or not.  Waiting longer for an election just increases the likelihood of a PC win.  Go now, hope Wynne gets a minority, and once she’s got a mandate then the NDP can work with her for 3 years .

I get that the NDP can’t go out and campaign on that because it is difficult to explain and looks really weak and puts Hudak in a position of power, but the fact the NDP had no prepared slate of candidates, no platform, no raison d’etre for this campaign is an embarrassment.  Whether it’s the “none of this is gonna get done, elected us to get it done” or the “privatization bomb” or “it’s time for government to do things that make a difference to you” – whatever.  It doesn’t matter.  There should be an overarching narrative that’s coherent and relevant.  The fact that there isn’t one is humiliating.  If you weren’t negotiating about the budget, then what have the NDP been doing in advance of this election call?  And Hudak positioning himself as the candidate of hope?  What the heck has the NDP been doing?  This situation was not a surprise. 

The communications the party is putting out has some of the most canned messaging that it’s embarrassing to think that things this inane are going out to people under the names of sitting NDP MPPs.  I feel for a Gilles Bisson or Catherine Fife - if they ever received some of the emails that went out in their names they’d cringe.  The move to pocketbook and small-time politics I think is actually quite astute, but it needs to be tied together in a way that the good bits (like the school closing stuff) is not forgotten within the larger context of the election.  Forget the scandals, even people who don't pay attention know about them.  This whole thing has been implemented so poorly it’s going to backfire spectacularly for the NDP.

 

  good email

terrytowel

There are six ridings in Scarborough and the NDP has only been able to fill only 3 of them.

Eileen Higdon for Pickering - Scarborough East
Neethan Shan for Scarborough - Rouge River
Jessie Macaulay for Scarborough Southwest

Currently vacant and needing NDP candidates are

Scarborough-Agincourt

Scarborough-Guildwood

Scarborough Centre  

Rokossovsky

The real problem with the Horwath ONDP has nothing to do with their messaging but the control freak attitude of the center to the riding associations, something that demoralizes the riding associations.

I note that Scarborough-Guildwood was the subject of some controversy in the last by-election, when they force fed Adam Giambrone into the riding over the head of the activist rank and file. A really sad state of affairs. It was claimed that the star candidate did well increasing the vote and building for the future.

Well, where is Adam Giambrone now? Should he not be taking up the gauntlet again for the people of Scarborough Guildwood?

A no show. And meanwhile it appears no one local is offering.

Sad. You can't build a populist "left" grassroots movement without empowering the little guys in your organization.

NorthReport

Where's Bob Rae when you want him - oh yea, he's where he belongs with the right-wing Liberals.  

Link

 

Former Ontario premier Dalton McGuinty appears before the Special Committee on Justice Policy at the Ontario Legislature in Toronto on Tuesday, June 25, 2012.

Wilf Day

terrytowel wrote:

Currently vacant and needing NDP candidates are

Scarborough-Agincourt

Scarborough-Guildwood

Scarborough Centre

That's why this thread was started:

Scarborough Centre: Carol Baker, Legal assistant with union-side labour law firm, currently seconded to the Ontario Federation of Labour as a coordinator for their Workers' Rights Campaign, Ontario Common Front, and Peoples Social Forum. The Ontario Common Front is a labour-community coalition of over 90 organizations, including the OFL.

Scarborough--Agincourt: Alex Wilson, Pastor at St. Stephen's Presbyterian Church, defeated Elizabeth Long? Wilson was defeated for Scarborough Southwest nomination.

Scarborough--Guildwood: Shuja Syed.

 

infracaninophile infracaninophile's picture

Rokossovsky wrote:

The real problem with the Horwath ONDP has nothing to do with their messaging but the control freak attitude of the center

My recollections are a little vague on this, but wasn't this a problem with the Rae outfit as well? 

NorthReport

Great idea - why are the Liberals NOT supporting it?

After all, "the Liberals who care so much about the plight of the those with less during election campaigns, one would think "these same right-wing governing Liberals" would jump at the chance to acutally discuss economic issues during the election campaign.

I suppose the Liberals are following the ole Kim Campbell approach to politics - "An election campaign is no place to discuss policy".

And maybe the Liberals will end up with the same result as Kim Campbell did as well. 

NDP's Andrea Horwath pushes for economy-focused debate

 

NorthReport

Well said - this is the crux of the matter in this election.  

Hats off to Horwath

Congratulations to NDP Leader Andrea Horwath in seeing that the big issue for the people of Ontario is not whether the budget is good, bad or indifferent but whether the Liberals deserve to govern any longer.

As she correctly identified in her press conference, the issue is that the history of the Liberals over the last decade shows that they cannot be trusted – starting with Dalton McGuinty’s promise of no new taxes, immediately followed by the health-care premium added to our income tax. This issue of trust is one that overlays others such as overspending and mismanagement. She is dead right to identify the budget’s proposals as having zero credibility and so evident an attempt to bribe NDP supporters, knowing that a new Liberal government can dump the whole lot.

Her task will be to make government credibility the number one issue in the campaign and show that she is a person who can be trusted. This issue will hopefully rise above the myriad other promises that will be brought forward. Knowing that she was a risk-taker to reject the budget, I admire her accordingly.

 

 

 

terrytowel

Wilf Day wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

Currently vacant and needing NDP candidates are

Scarborough-Agincourt

Scarborough-Guildwood

Scarborough Centre

That's why this thread was started:

Scarborough Centre: Carol Baker, Legal assistant with union-side labour law firm, currently seconded to the Ontario Federation of Labour as a coordinator for their Workers' Rights Campaign, Ontario Common Front, and Peoples Social Forum. The Ontario Common Front is a labour-community coalition of over 90 organizations, including the OFL.

Scarborough--Agincourt: Alex Wilson, Pastor at St. Stephen's Presbyterian Church, defeated Elizabeth Long? Wilson was defeated for Scarborough Southwest nomination.

Scarborough--Guildwood: Shuja Syed.

 

 

really wish the NDP website for Ontario would update that information.

terrytowel

Wife of Jim Flaherty, MPP Christine Elliot will give her first TV interview since his death. But not to talk about Jim

Tonight on TVO The Agenda host Steve Paikin brings the Liberal health minister Deb Matthews to debate health care with the opposition critics. PC health critic Christine Elliot and NDP health critic France Gélinas. Green party candidate will round out this quartet.

Unionist

[url=http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/gerry-caplan/2014/05/conservative-hat-tr... hat trick in the cards for Ontario[/url]

Quote:

A spectre is haunting Ontario: the threat of three conservatives governing in Ottawa, Queen's Park and Toronto. [...]

Let's agree that all things being equal, having Hudak rule in Queen's Park while Mr. Harper reigns in Ottawa and Rob Ford does whatever he does to Toronto, may be something less than a swell idea. Now what? How do Ontario voters on June 12 go about ensuring it doesn't happen? Which of the other two parties do they vote for? Do they go for the party of the squishy centre or do they put their faith in the more progressive party? And the really big question: how do they know which of the two is which?

OnTheLeft OnTheLeft's picture

Ciabatta2 wrote:

I completely understand the rationale to go to election now – there’s going to be an election either now, fall 2014 or spring 2015.  Nothing in this budget will get implemented within that timeframe, political guarantees or not.  Waiting longer for an election just increases the likelihood of a PC win.  Go now, hope Wynne gets a minority, and once she’s got a mandate then the NDP can work with her for 3 years .

I get that the NDP can’t go out and campaign on that because it is difficult to explain and looks really weak and puts Hudak in a position of power, but the fact the NDP had no prepared slate of candidates, no platform, no raison d’etre for this campaign is an embarrassment.  Whether it’s the “none of this is gonna get done, elected us to get it done” or the “privatization bomb” or “it’s time for government to do things that make a difference to you” – whatever.  It doesn’t matter.  There should be an overarching narrative that’s coherent and relevant.  The fact that there isn’t one is humiliating.  If you weren’t negotiating about the budget, then what have the NDP been doing in advance of this election call?  And Hudak positioning himself as the candidate of hope?  What the heck has the NDP been doing?  This situation was not a surprise. 

The communications the party is putting out has some of the most canned messaging that it’s embarrassing to think that things this inane are going out to people under the names of sitting NDP MPPs.  I feel for a Gilles Bisson or Catherine Fife - if they ever received some of the emails that went out in their names they’d cringe.  The move to pocketbook and small-time politics I think is actually quite astute, but it needs to be tied together in a way that the good bits (like the school closing stuff) is not forgotten within the larger context of the election.  Forget the scandals, even people who don't pay attention know about them.  This whole thing has been implemented so poorly it’s going to backfire spectacularly for the NDP.

 

Well said.

But Wynne will likely get a majority after this moving to the right clown show.

NorthReport

Link

 

 

terrytowel

terrytowel wrote:

Wife of Jim Flaherty, MPP Christine Elliot will give her first TV interview since his death. But not to talk about Jim

Tonight on TVO The Agenda host Steve Paikin brings the Liberal health minister Deb Matthews to debate health care with the opposition critics. PC health critic Christine Elliot and NDP health critic France Gélinas. Green party candidate will round out this quartet.

The debate just finished and it was great! It repeats at 11PM and try to tune in. It was a lively debate and discussion.

 

PrairieDemocrat15

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ontario-pcs-capturing-lion-s-share-of-ele...

"The Ontario Progressive Conservatives are dominating the provincial election debate on Twitter, but the buzz appears to be mostly negative, according to a new poll."

"The survey found that 59 per cent of the discussion surrounding the PCs was negative... while 8 per cent was positive and 33 per cent was neutral."

"The Liberals fared better on Twitter, with comments being 35 per cent negative, 23 per cent positive and 42 per cent neutral."

"The NDP, meanwhile, was the only party that received more positive mentions (31 per cent) than negative (28 per cent)."

Emphasis added.

 

PrairieDemocrat15

NorthReport wrote:

Well said - this is the crux of the matter in this election.  

Hats off to Horwath

Congratulations to NDP Leader Andrea Horwath in seeing that the big issue for the people of Ontario is not whether the budget is good, bad or indifferent but whether the Liberals deserve to govern any longer.

As she correctly identified in her press conference, the issue is that the history of the Liberals over the last decade shows that they cannot be trusted – starting with Dalton McGuinty’s promise of no new taxes, immediately followed by the health-care premium added to our income tax. This issue of trust is one that overlays others such as overspending and mismanagement. She is dead right to identify the budget’s proposals as having zero credibility and so evident an attempt to bribe NDP supporters, knowing that a new Liberal government can dump the whole lot.

Her task will be to make government credibility the number one issue in the campaign and show that she is a person who can be trusted. This issue will hopefully rise above the myriad other promises that will be brought forward. Knowing that she was a risk-taker to reject the budget, I admire her accordingly.

My jaw was on the floor as I read this. Such an NDP-supportive article from a mainstream, corporate-owned paper. Is this a column or an editorial?! Nope, a letter-to-the-editior, which makes more sense. At least the Citizen printed it, I guess.

Skinny Dipper

NorthReport wrote:

Well said - this is the crux of the matter in this election.  

Hats off to Horwath

Congratulations to NDP Leader Andrea Horwath in seeing that the big issue for the people of Ontario is not whether the budget is good, bad or indifferent but whether the Liberals deserve to govern any longer.

As she correctly identified in her press conference, the issue is that the history of the Liberals over the last decade shows that they cannot be trusted – starting with Dalton McGuinty’s promise of no new taxes, immediately followed by the health-care premium added to our income tax. This issue of trust is one that overlays others such as overspending and mismanagement. She is dead right to identify the budget’s proposals as having zero credibility and so evident an attempt to bribe NDP supporters, knowing that a new Liberal government can dump the whole lot.

Her task will be to make government credibility the number one issue in the campaign and show that she is a person who can be trusted. This issue will hopefully rise above the myriad other promises that will be brought forward. Knowing that she was a risk-taker to reject the budget, I admire her accordingly.

I agree with the above.  However, Andrea Horwath has only offered pieces of a puzzle in presenting her vision for Ontario.  There is a lack of substance on what kind of Ontario she wants.

mark_alfred
Aristotleded24

[url=http://rabble.ca/news/2014/05/raising-minimum-wage-and-defeating-hudaks-... Hudak's anti-labour agenda:[/url]

Quote:
The May 14 action highlighted the challenges faced by young workers in today's labour market. Importantly, the Ontario Federation of Labour and the Canadian Federation of Students-Ontario, along with the Campaign to Raise the Minimum Wage, sponsored the action. Young workers -- those under 25 years of age -- comprise the majority of minimum wage earners; since 2008, the proportion of young people in minimum wage jobs has increased dramatically. 

But a decent minimum wage is not just a youth issue. According to the Wellesley Institute, in Ontario today, about one million workers earn less than $14.25 an hour and more than 60 per cent of them are adults over the age of 25. Racialized workers are almost 50 per cent more likely to be in low-income work and women comprise a higher proportion of low-income workers in every demographic category. These workers face all the same challenges as young workers. 

Alongside concerns about growing inequality, public opinion polls have consistently shown high support for raising the minimum wage. Indeed, the suggestion that any person working full-time ought not to live in poverty seems like a no-brainer for people of all political stripes. Yet it is clear that it will take a significant mobilization from below to push decision-makers to act.

I have to say this is probably one of the best written articles I've seen on the subject so far. Frache makes her case as to why this is an important issue, the limits of electoral politics in achieving movement, and the importance of people mobilizing for this to happen. Most importantly, she is relentless and thorough in out lining the issue without descending to cheap talking points in the service of one political party or another.

NorthReport

All you will ever see in the msp concerning the NDP is boo hiss. 

It's always the Three Muskateers - the right-wing Liberals and PCs, the Press, and the Pollsters, and they are often connected at the hip.

Liberals > Toronto Star > Innovative

Liberals -> CBC > EKOS

PCs > National Post > Compas

That's why aggregators that load up on Liberal pollster's results are usually a waste of time.

Do some reearch on Nate Silver of www.fivethirtyeight.com  and NYTimes fame, to understand the con job.

 

PrairieDemocrat15 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Well said - this is the crux of the matter in this election.  

Hats off to Horwath

Congratulations to NDP Leader Andrea Horwath in seeing that the big issue for the people of Ontario is not whether the budget is good, bad or indifferent but whether the Liberals deserve to govern any longer.

As she correctly identified in her press conference, the issue is that the history of the Liberals over the last decade shows that they cannot be trusted – starting with Dalton McGuinty’s promise of no new taxes, immediately followed by the health-care premium added to our income tax. This issue of trust is one that overlays others such as overspending and mismanagement. She is dead right to identify the budget’s proposals as having zero credibility and so evident an attempt to bribe NDP supporters, knowing that a new Liberal government can dump the whole lot.

Her task will be to make government credibility the number one issue in the campaign and show that she is a person who can be trusted. This issue will hopefully rise above the myriad other promises that will be brought forward. Knowing that she was a risk-taker to reject the budget, I admire her accordingly.

My jaw was on the floor as I read this. Such an NDP-supportive article from a mainstream, corporate-owned paper. Is this a column or an editorial?! Nope, a letter-to-the-editior, which makes more sense. At least the Citizen printed it, I guess.

NorthReport
Rokossovsky

Aristotleded24 wrote:

[url=http://rabble.ca/news/2014/05/raising-minimum-wage-and-defeating-hudaks-... Hudak's anti-labour agenda:[/url]

Quote:
The May 14 action highlighted the challenges faced by young workers in today's labour market. Importantly, the Ontario Federation of Labour and the Canadian Federation of Students-Ontario, along with the Campaign to Raise the Minimum Wage, sponsored the action. Young workers -- those under 25 years of age -- comprise the majority of minimum wage earners; since 2008, the proportion of young people in minimum wage jobs has increased dramatically. 

But a decent minimum wage is not just a youth issue. According to the Wellesley Institute, in Ontario today, about one million workers earn less than $14.25 an hour and more than 60 per cent of them are adults over the age of 25. Racialized workers are almost 50 per cent more likely to be in low-income work and women comprise a higher proportion of low-income workers in every demographic category. These workers face all the same challenges as young workers. 

Alongside concerns about growing inequality, public opinion polls have consistently shown high support for raising the minimum wage. Indeed, the suggestion that any person working full-time ought not to live in poverty seems like a no-brainer for people of all political stripes. Yet it is clear that it will take a significant mobilization from below to push decision-makers to act.

I have to say this is probably one of the best written articles I've seen on the subject so far. Frache makes her case as to why this is an important issue, the limits of electoral politics in achieving movement, and the importance of people mobilizing for this to happen. Most importantly, she is relentless and thorough in out lining the issue without descending to cheap talking points in the service of one political party or another.

It's a great article, and well argued. The article claims the campaign "floats all boats". It doesn't. The NDP is often critiqued for a simillar emphasis on "working families", because it ignores whole stratas of socitey, particularly the most downtrodden.

It is ok to associate yourself with respectable "working" people.

There are some tacit "understandings" that are implied in the reference to the general popularity of the idea. I feel these are revealed when Frache states "Indeed, the suggestion that any person working full-time ought not to live in poverty seems like a no-brainer for people of all political stripes"... as opposed too those not working full time, or those not working?

The theme of the deserving "hardworking" poor comes out against the backdrop of the "undeserving" non-working poor, who are not mentioned as they are not the focus of the campaign.

Of course Frache and other working on this campaign do not think the non-working poor are undeserving, but I am not so sanguine about the reasons that the campaign finds acceptance among "people of all political stripes", a factor that definitely weighs in heavily on why it has been chosen as campaign that might achieve "popular" success, and is therefore worthy of pursuing.

That is not to say that it is not worthy of pursuing, because it most certainly is, but it is also an easier more popular hill to climb, than the issue of the non-working "undeserving lazy poor", precisely because it can move forward in an capitalist cultural climate that defines a persons value by their commitment to exploitative labour relations embodied in protestant work ethic.

Everyone agrees! Hard work should be rewarded! It is not as Frache later points out an "act of charity". An act of charity might be a problem... why?

By interference supporting those who don't work is charity, not a social necessity.

Frache also denies that the campaign is just an "effective public relations strategy to improve the public's attitude toward unions" and I am certain that is true but then she implies their might be some side benefits there as well: "this might be a happy side-effect of such work."

Fine. Nothing wrong with enlightened self-interest. I support unions. I support a living wage. If the unions can get some good press by supporting a living wage, good for them.

But lets look at this historically.

The minimum wage struggle is not even a struggle of your "Grandfather's NDP" but one more properly associated with your "Great-grandfather's Communist Party". The fact that this is an issue at all is an example of just how critical the situation of the general social infrastructure has become under supply side economic neo-liberalism.

If we track back a bit to the 60s, 70s and 80s, we see that minimum wage issues were hardly relevant at all. This is because then, as opposed to now there was such a strong social safety network and strong union support in place that workers could simply deny their service if wages were not high enough, and still sustain themselves. Market forces kept the value of labour high. Too high according to Milton Friedman.

Because the unemployed enjoyed so many benefits, and were treated more decently they had no reason to leave the house unless real living wages were offered. Support was comprehensive and universal, and floated all boats, which is something that $14 minimum wage campaign does not. It preferences one segment of low income people over others, who are simply ignored, if not in spirit but in fact.

Milton Friedman's entire project was dismantling this social safety net that buoyed up the amount that labour could demand in the market, precisely to depress the value of labour and increase profit. He didn't say. "lets drop the minimum wage", he said "lets strangle government revenue, and undermine unions, and drive the value of labour down in the market by eliminating the programs and institutions that support high labour value in the market."

Freidman aimed at base structures of society in order to undermine labour value. He had a comprehensive program. In comparison both Horwath's $100 hydro rebate, and the $14 minimum wage are both piecemeal populist campaigns, neither of which address either the root economic structures or the fundamental ideological frame, even though they provide those with less means with some benefit, which is a good thing.

That is why I find it strange that some people ardently attack the NDP for failing to address the $14 an hour minimum wage, as if it is the sum total of an economic program, and ignoring other socially progressive proposals they put forth. 

A set minimum wage can be an important tool in establishing a fair economic order, but asserting its primacy over other programs that either reduce the burden of cost on all lower income people (removal of flat taxes and fees and cheap transit and daycare) or increase the quality of life (recreational facilities), regardless of their employment status makes no sense to me, especially when you consider what Friedman understood, which is that all these things also float the real market value of labour.

Unionist

Aristotleded24 wrote:

[url=http://rabble.ca/news/2014/05/raising-minimum-wage-and-defeating-hudaks-... Hudak's anti-labour agenda[/url]

I have to say this is probably one of the best written articles I've seen on the subject so far. Frache makes her case as to why this is an important issue, the limits of electoral politics in achieving movement, and the importance of people mobilizing for this to happen. Most importantly, she is relentless and thorough in out lining the issue without descending to cheap talking points in the service of one political party or another.

Agreed, it's a very good piece.

But someone sometime should point out that the historic movement to increase the minimum wage is related to, but extremely distinct from, measures to eliminate poverty.

Wages are paid by employers - as opposed to social assistance, education, basic health care, transit fares, housing... all of which either are or should be provided (or at least subsidized) by society as a whole, in order to treat its members with respect and create a fairer distribution of wealth.

Higher wages mean that workers get to keep more of the value that their labour creates or adds to goods and services, and the employer keeps less. Minimum wage laws set a lower limit to exploitation - and a lower limit to competition between workers for available jobs. All workers, indeed the whole society (except maybe the biggest employers), benefit from slowing down that race to the bottom.

Ultimately, ideally, workers organize themselves and empower themselves to fight their own battles. That's historically how many minimum labour standards came into being (minimum wage, vacations, health insurance, pensions, maternity and parental leave, health and safety laws, even human rights legislation, etc.). Enshrining these in law represent society's recognition that they constitute a universal social good.

That's why the minimum wage must not be confused with other programs (or experiments) like guaranteed living income, or other names. Those are paid by society. Minimum wage is not, and it should not be financed by "taxpayers" (except of course where the employer is the state, or, indirectly, where the economic sector in question is seen as requiring subsidies for democratically decided reasons).

It's not surprising that the trade union movement has always been in the forefront, along with anti-poverty activists, of fighting for increased minimum wages - even though they arguably are least in direct need of such legislation. Nor is it surprising that the NDP was once also in the forefront of such struggles.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..txs unionist for this reminder.

NorthReport

 

Link

Quote:
Quickie observations: I still don’t see a majority for anyone. I still don’t count out the NDP. I think the public think there are far too many elections going on (three in Trinity-Spadina alone!). I think the two leaders who lose will be gone by 2015.  Oh, and most importantly: I still think Joe and Jane Frontporch aren’t paying attention yet.

 

onlinediscountanvils

[url=http://globalnews.ca/news/1342879/ontario-election-traditional-ndp-suppo... NDP supporters disgruntled by new policies[/url]

For most of her adult life Judy Rebick has been a passionate campaigner for social justice, often in the streets carrying picket signs. In all that time she was a reliable NDP supporter, even running for the party in one election.

But in a recent conversation about social media she told me she was thinking of creating a new twitter hashtag:  [url=https://twitter.com/judyrebick/status/467003486471589889]#wherestheondp?...

“I know lots of people who have ripped up their cards, decided not to donate and they’re even considering not voting.”

Unionist

[url=http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario_election/2014/05/20/ontario_election... Walkom:[/url]

Quote:

In this election campaign, the level of vitriol between Liberals and New Democrats has reached new heights.

The Liberals disparage Horwath for refusing to support a budget focused on traditional NDP demands such as infrastructure spending and pension reform.

The New Democrats lash the Liberals for mismanagement and waste, saying they are not to be trusted.

Indeed, Horwath’s rhetoric has been harsher than Hudak’s.

So far, at least, the NDP are not campaigning as if they expect to form government. They have not issued a platform. Horwath’s policy pronouncements are disjointed, with no coherent thread linking them.

The New Democrats appear to be playing the long game, hoping to gain more seats now in the hope that they will be better positioned to win power at some undetermined point in the future.

Indeed, if Horwath’s NDP can up their seat total from the current 21, they will be happy. If they can crush the Liberals and become official opposition to a majority Hudak Tory government, they will be ecstatic.

Ciabatta2

Walkom has it backwards.

If the NDP wanted to increase their seat total and play the long-game to usurp the Liberals, their best bet would have been to let the Liberals waste away in office implementing what the public perceives as an NDP agenda.  Keeping Wynne in office until 2015 would effectively run-the-clock on provincial Liberal government in Ontario and would have most-likely ensured a PC win for the next two or three mandates with the NDP the best bet to become opposition.

The NDP is playing the short-game.  Going to election now risks their newly-won seats in Niagara Falls, Kitchener-Waterloo, and London West, but the Liberals are more electable now than they will be in the future and this presents a better chance of wielding the balance of power in a minority Liberal government.

There's a lot to criticize the NDP for in this election -much of Walkom's is well put, but some is unbalanced.  When the NDP campaigns like it wants to form government, it gets called out for being unrealistic and pie-in-the-sky.  When the NDP campaigns according to the stature it has in the legislature, it gets called out for not trying to form government.

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