Ontario General Election 2014

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josh

Yeah, Walkom's thinking appears a bit muddled on this one.

Ciabatta2

I think he's mistaking the NDP's shift to the centre (real or perceived) as a indicator of wanting to usurp the Liberals.  It's most likely a shift to reflect the leader's or the party's read of where the electorate is, particularly outside of Toronto.  Whether or not that impression is accurate and whether it will sit well with the NDP's supporters / core vote is another story.

Rokossovsky

Precisely. The object is to win over right wing voters, not Liberal ones.

Nearly 25% of all Rob Ford voters identified themselves NDP voters.

Liberal-left policies of supporting increased flat taxes (HST) and user fees (David Miller "revenue tools") to support social programs have backfired enormously driving many pocket book savvy working class voters into the Conservative camp. The NDP is clearly trying to retrieve those "core" voters.

The Liberals by contrast like to talk about "expenditures" on social programs to make themselves sound progressive, but refrain from talking about where that money is coming from.

Rokossovsky

As for the campaign. Walkom is right that it needs a "central" thread, which is missing. Maybe one will be forthcoming now that things are a little clearer after two weeks.

Rokossovsky

Unionist wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

[url=http://rabble.ca/news/2014/05/raising-minimum-wage-and-defeating-hudaks-... Hudak's anti-labour agenda[/url]

I have to say this is probably one of the best written articles I've seen on the subject so far. Frache makes her case as to why this is an important issue, the limits of electoral politics in achieving movement, and the importance of people mobilizing for this to happen. Most importantly, she is relentless and thorough in out lining the issue without descending to cheap talking points in the service of one political party or another.

Agreed, it's a very good piece.

But someone sometime should point out that the historic movement to increase the minimum wage is related to, but extremely distinct from, measures to eliminate poverty.

Right. It is not an anti-poverty campaign per se.

Unionist wrote:

Wages are paid by employers - as opposed to social assistance, education, basic health care, transit fares, housing... all of which either are or should be provided (or at least subsidized) by society as a whole, in order to treat its members with respect and create a fairer distribution of wealth.

Right again, this is the domain of government and political parties, per se, and not the "labour" movement. Therefore, our examination of party policy, and the things that parties are doing to support ALL low income people are just as relevant as the minimum wage which is just one aspect of social policy, when discussing overall governance.

Again noting also, that policy regarding social assistance also has the collateral effect of supporting the real market value of labour.

Theoretically speaking, if we were to raise welfare rates to a "living wage" there would be no need for a living wage demand, since the market value of labour would rise above the base social assistance allowance. By the same token, the Liberal proposal to increase the the social assistance rates by less than the rate of inflation, is actually a regressive policy, because it marginally decreases the real market value of labour.

So I find it ironic to steadfastly stand on the minimum wage issue in regards to the NDP, while endorsing the Liberal plan to minimally increase the minimum wage to less than poverty levels, while they are at the same time acting to depress the real market value of labour by effectively reducing social assistance rates, in real terms.

Pogo Pogo's picture

If anyone bothered to look in depth at the living wage campaign you would see that minimum wages were only one component on what they were working for.  The living wage calculation is postively affected by changes in housing affordability, transit, daycare and any number of other issues.  Clearly wages are one of the most important, but to focus on wages to the exclusion of all else is just wrong.

Unionist

Pogo wrote:

 Clearly wages are one of the most important, but to focus on wages to the exclusion of all else is just wrong.

Who was doing that, Pogo?

terrytowel

terrytowel wrote:

Wife of Jim Flaherty, MPP Christine Elliot will give her first TV interview since his death. But not to talk about Jim

Tonight on TVO The Agenda host Steve Paikin brings the Liberal health minister Deb Matthews to debate health care with the opposition critics. PC health critic Christine Elliot and NDP health critic France Gélinas. Green party candidate will round out this quartet.

Video from last nigt's show is up on the TVO website.

Please do watch because it was a GREAT debate.

An all women's panel, which is another reason why women make better politicians than men. So many more problems could be solved if women ruled the world.

http://tvo.org/video/203921/your-vote-2014-health-care

Aristotleded24

onlinediscountanvils wrote:
[url=http://globalnews.ca/news/1342879/ontario-election-traditional-ndp-suppo... NDP supporters disgruntled by new policies[/url]

For most of her adult life Judy Rebick has been a passionate campaigner for social justice, often in the streets carrying picket signs. In all that time she was a reliable NDP supporter, even running for the party in one election.

But in a recent conversation about social media she told me she was thinking of creating a new twitter hashtag:

[url=https://twitter.com/judyrebick/status/467003486471589889]#wherestheondp?...

“I know lots of people who have ripped up their cards, decided not to donate and they’re even considering not voting.”

Is this the same Judy Rebick who defended Buzz Hargrove when he was rightly expelled from the NDP for endorsing Paul Martin during the federal election? What kind of political instincts are these?

onlinediscountanvils

Aristotleded24 wrote:

onlinediscountanvils wrote:
[url=http://globalnews.ca/news/1342879/ontario-election-traditional-ndp-suppo... NDP supporters disgruntled by new policies[/url]

For most of her adult life Judy Rebick has been a passionate campaigner for social justice, often in the streets carrying picket signs. In all that time she was a reliable NDP supporter, even running for the party in one election.

But in a recent conversation about social media she told me she was thinking of creating a new twitter hashtag:

[url=https://twitter.com/judyrebick/status/467003486471589889]#wherestheondp?...

“I know lots of people who have ripped up their cards, decided not to donate and they’re even considering not voting.”

Is this the same Judy Rebick

Probably. Do you know anyone else by that name?

mark_alfred

Yes, the NDP can't win.  Attacked by MSM, and often attacked here as well, regardless of what they do or say.  The NDP announced Horwath plan will focus on healthcare fundamentals, cut ER wait times in half and what is reported in the MSM media today?  Wynne riding a tractor this time, while Hudak rode a tractor last time.

 

Rokossovsky

Aristotleded24 wrote:

onlinediscountanvils wrote:
[url=http://globalnews.ca/news/1342879/ontario-election-traditional-ndp-suppo... NDP supporters disgruntled by new policies[/url]

For most of her adult life Judy Rebick has been a passionate campaigner for social justice, often in the streets carrying picket signs. In all that time she was a reliable NDP supporter, even running for the party in one election.

But in a recent conversation about social media she told me she was thinking of creating a new twitter hashtag:

[url=https://twitter.com/judyrebick/status/467003486471589889]#wherestheondp?...

“I know lots of people who have ripped up their cards, decided not to donate and they’re even considering not voting.”

Is this the same Judy Rebick who defended Buzz Hargrove when he was rightly expelled from the NDP for endorsing Paul Martin during the federal election? What kind of political instincts are these?

Yes it is. The very same Judy Rebick, who defended Buzz Hargrove when he headed up the CAW, one of the predecessor unions to UNIFOR that endorsed the Liberal budget.

swallow

They could always buy the cover of the Toronto Sun....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ndp-sun-wrap-ad...

NorthReport

Andrea is wisely keeping her cards close to her vest.

The ONDP realize that they first have to win the election if they are ever going to improve things for the people of Ontario.

The platform will be released when it is good for the NDP to do so, not when it is good for the Liberals.

Right now with the NDP sitting within 1/2 doz points of the Liberals is exactly when the NDP needs to be at the moment.

And always remember, the NDP, nor its predecessor the CCF, never won any election with the help of the mainstream media.

mark_alfred wrote:

Yes, the NDP can't win.  Attacked by MSM, and often attacked here as well, regardless of what they do or say.  The NDP announced Horwath plan will focus on healthcare fundamentals, cut ER wait times in half and what is reported in the MSM media today?  Wynne riding a tractor this time, while Hudak rode a tractor last time.

 

mark_alfred

swallow wrote:

They could always buy the cover of the Toronto Sun....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ndp-sun-wrap-ad...

That link doesn't work for me.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

swallow wrote:

They could always buy the cover of the Toronto Sun....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ndp-sun-wrap-ad...

That link doesn't work for me.

Try [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ndp-sun-wrap-ad....

 

Unionist

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Is this the same Judy Rebick who defended Buzz Hargrove when he was rightly expelled from the NDP for endorsing Paul Martin during the federal election?

Interesting distortion of history. Buzz Hargrove "endorsed" Paul Martin. What an utter fabrication.

"Rightly expelled". Yeah, throw all the fucking assholes out that can't toe the line.

Let me see: Judy Rebick, or Andrea Horwath. Rebick, or Horwath.

Tough choice.

All right, all right, you can have Horwath.

mark_alfred

That's how I remember it.  Hargrove giving the CAW jacket to Martin.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

That's how I remember it.  Hargrove giving the CAW jacket to Martin.

Yeah, when Martin was a guest at the CAW Council meeting in December 2005. Now find a source, a link, a document, a rumour, that says that Hargrove "endorsed" Paul Martin. It's a plain lie. Hargrove, and the CAW Council at the time, voted to endorse strategic voting. That's why he was turfed by the Ontario NDP. He never endorsed Paul Martin. But lies, repeated often enough, become truths, don't they?

 

mark_alfred

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

swallow wrote:

They could always buy the cover of the Toronto Sun....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ndp-sun-wrap-ad...

That link doesn't work for me.

Try [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ndp-sun-wrap-ad....

Thanks.  I actually like it simply because it's different.  Bold.  And why bother going for alleged pseudo progressives who are just gonna "strategically" vote Liberal anyway?  Many of the actual poor and disaffected read the Sun, so why not try to reach them?  It'll be interesting if this works. 

mark_alfred

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

That's how I remember it.  Hargrove giving the CAW jacket to Martin.

Hargrove, and the CAW Council at the time, voted to endorse strategic voting. That's why he was turfed by the Ontario NDP.

Good.  Anyone who endorses "strategic" voting should be booted.

mark_alfred

Heard that the NDP platform is coming out tomorrow.

JeffWells

FWIW, along with everything else about this campaign, "Put the Liberals in the penalty box" is driving me mad. It's an admission the party isn't even seriously aspiring to govern. Which makes me wonder afresh why Horwath triggered an election she clearly wasn't ready to fight, let alone fight to win.

I imagine there must be a lot of "WTF was she thinking?" going on in federal ranks watching this unfold. There better be.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

Good.  Anyone who endorses "strategic" voting should be booted.

What about anyone who breaks promises to workers, panders to the rich, supports aggression abroad, and generally genuflects before "business", which is not a four-letter word?

No, they're cool, as long as they jump up and down and swear "my party, right or wrong".

 

Unionist

JeffWells wrote:

Which makes me wonder afresh why Horwath triggered an election she clearly wasn't ready to fight, let alone fight to win.

Geez Jeff, can't you get with the program?????

Horwath didn't trigger an election. It was Wynne, who was too cowardly to defend her budget in the house (even though two parties had already announced they would vote against it).

Horwath must have been shocked as shit when, after declaring she would vote with Hudak against the budget, Wynne said "let's have an election".

You can't blame Horwath for that. She was just shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

 

mark_alfred

Agreed.  A lot of the catch phrases are just too cute for me.  Put the Libs in the penalty box.  If they can't build a raft, how do they expect to build a ship. 

mark_alfred

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

Good.  Anyone who endorses "strategic" voting should be booted.

What about anyone who breaks promises to workers, panders to the rich, supports aggression abroad, and generally genuflects before "business", which is not a four-letter word?

No, they're cool, as long as they jump up and down and swear "my party, right or wrong".

Sorry Unionist, you lost me.  Whom in the NDP are you attacking now?

DLivings

mark_alfred wrote:

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

Good.  Anyone who endorses "strategic" voting should be booted.

What about anyone who breaks promises to workers, panders to the rich, supports aggression abroad, and generally genuflects before "business", which is not a four-letter word?

No, they're cool, as long as they jump up and down and swear "my party, right or wrong".

Sorry Unionist, you lost me.  Whom in the NDP are you attacking now?

And how is "my party, right or wrong" even related to strategic voting in the way it is usually advocated?  Strategic voting as it's used in the current federal context is based on the fallacy that the Liberals, who reduced health transfers to the provinces more than the Cons and reduced corporate taxes significantly, are somehow preferable to the Conservatives, so don't waste your vote for a new democrat, vote Liberal.  (Of course, in the west of this country strategic voting is "anyone but the ndp", pick the dominant "free-enterprise" party.)  At least in BC that makes it apparent what a Liberal stands for.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

Sorry Unionist, you lost me.  Whom in the NDP are you attacking now?

Oh, anyone who does the things I mentioned. The ONDP, for breaking promises when it formed government (auto insurance), and tearing up negotiated collective agreements. Um, Andrea Horwath, for promising to cut "waste" (can't even dream up her own right-wing memes). Tom Mulcair and his camp followers, for supporting aggression in Libya, for praising the Canadian contribution to Afghanistan's liberty, for bullying Libby Davies into submission over Israel and Palestine.

Those are the people whose sorry asses should have been hurled out of the NDP. Not for preaching "strategic voting". For betraying the principles that people foolishly believe the NDP defends.

But the NDP has no rules in that respect. They didn't even kick Bev Desjarlais's ass for declaring that she would vote with homophobia. No. Nothing matters, so long as you support the party, right or wrong.

Need more examples?

 

NorthReport

Lots of revisionist history going around these days.

The NDP just threw Buzz out for no reason at all.  Laughing

Buzz was gunning for a Senate position and threw his union jacket around Martin's shoulders at a media event during the election but he wasn't endorsing the Liberals. Ha! Ha! Ha!

Unfortunately Buzz is no Bob White.

Strategic voting = a Liberal ploy to get NDP supporters to vote for the Liberals.

We had the opportunity to bring Harper down and the Liberals walked away because they knew better than Jack Layton. 

If you don't like what Harper is doing blame the Liberals for allowing him to continue in office when the Liberals had the chance to work with the NDP and throw Harper out.

The Liberals will never ever co-operate with the NDP unless their backs are against a wall, and even then quite reluctantly.

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

That's how I remember it.  Hargrove giving the CAW jacket to Martin.

Yeah, when Martin was a guest at the CAW Council meeting in December 2005. Now find a source, a link, a document, a rumour, that says that Hargrove "endorsed" Paul Martin. It's a plain lie. Hargrove, and the CAW Council at the time, voted to endorse strategic voting. That's why he was turfed by the Ontario NDP. He never endorsed Paul Martin. But lies, repeated often enough, become truths, don't they?

 

jerrym

There will be a Northern Ontario debate between Horwath and Wynne Monday evening. Hudak claims he can't make it because he already has important work to do (in Southern Ontario). I'm not saying that Horwath will win but if she does do well it could help increase her prominence in media coverage and give her campaign a lift. While the Conservatives traditionally do not have great support in the North, this won't help and it could help make him look him unwilling to face tough questions from the opposition. 

Unionist

DLivings wrote:
... the fallacy that the Liberals ... are somehow preferable to the Conservatives...

If you can't tell the difference between Paul Martin or Stéphane Dion and Stephen Harper, then unfortunately we are on opposite sides of the trenches. Jack Layton was able to tell the difference.

 

NorthReport

This issue will resonate with lots of voters

Andrea Horwath vows to cut ER wait times in halfLiberals have spent too much on bureaucrats, NDP leader charges

Ontario's Liberal government wasted millions of dollars in a fruitless effort to reduce overcrowding in hospital emergency rooms, NDP Leader Andrea Horwath charged Tuesday as she unveiled a plan to cut ER wait times in half if the New Democrats win the June 12 election.

The Liberals spent too much money on bureaucrats and not enough on front line care as they tried to reduce wait times in various areas of the health care system, added Horwath.

"They put a whole bunch of money into wait times for home care, but a nice chunk of that money went to the administrators of (Community Care Access Centres), went to the executive directors getting close to 50 per cent salary increases," she said.

"They seem to waste a lot of money at the top — look at the Ornge air ambulance as a perfect example — but the money never seems to focus in on the front lines, and that's where our program is different."

 

mark_alfred

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

Sorry Unionist, you lost me.  Whom in the NDP are you attacking now?

Oh, anyone who does the things I mentioned. The ONDP, for breaking promises when it formed government (auto insurance), and tearing up negotiated collective agreements. Um, Andrea Horwath, for promising to cut "waste" (can't even dream up her own right-wing memes). Tom Mulcair and his camp followers, for supporting aggression in Libya, for praising the Canadian contribution to Afghanistan's liberty, for bullying Libby Davies into submission over Israel and Palestine.

Those are the people whose sorry asses should have been hurled out of the NDP. Not for preaching "strategic voting". For betraying the principles that people foolishly believe the NDP defends.

But the NDP has no rules in that respect. They didn't even kick Bev Desjarlais's ass for declaring that she would vote with homophobia. No. Nothing matters, so long as you support the party, right or wrong.

Need more examples?

I proudly support the NDP.  They're the underdog who get attacked by everyone.  But they're still the best of the lot.

scott16

is the Monday Northern Debate going to be televised or recorded in some way? Will there be a PC rep in Hudak's place?

Rokossovsky

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

swallow wrote:

They could always buy the cover of the Toronto Sun....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ndp-sun-wrap-ad...

That link doesn't work for me.

Try [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/ndp-sun-wrap-ad....

Excellent! Why on earth would they advertize in the Star. I certainly wouldn't reward night and day attacks in a media outlet, without noticeable counter comment by giving them money. Are you joking?

Seems like someone in the NDP has finally got their head on straight and decided to punish journalistic failure. No cookie for you.

Someone seems upset that the NDP would try and communicate with voters outside of liberal circles. The nerve! Why would anyone try and errode the Conservative voter base? Certainly not Wynne, she is too busy trying to suck votes away from the most progressive representatives in the Ontario legislature in Toronto.

Maybe the OLP should change its name to the Toronot Liberal Party, and just have done with it. They are dying everywhere else.

Rokossovsky

Unionist wrote:

DLivings wrote:
... the fallacy that the Liberals ... are somehow preferable to the Conservatives...

If you can't tell the difference between Paul Martin or Stéphane Dion and Stephen Harper, then unfortunately we are on opposite sides of the trenches. Jack Layton was able to tell the difference.

Stephan Dion couldn't control his caucus?

Rokossovsky

Unionist wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Is this the same Judy Rebick who defended Buzz Hargrove when he was rightly expelled from the NDP for endorsing Paul Martin during the federal election?

Interesting distortion of history. Buzz Hargrove "endorsed" Paul Martin. What an utter fabrication.

If someone says that its ok to vote for "so and so's" party, even if only conditionally, they are still endorsing that party. Its a dual endorsement of both the NDP and the Liberals, which strictly speaking goes against the party policy. If you aren't going to support your party voting for your party against the competition, unconditionally, then you might as well not be in it.

Debater

Like its Federal counterpart, the Ontario NDP has moved so far to the right in order to get into power, it has sacrificed its traditional principles.  When even long-term NDP supporters like Judy Rebick are disturbed, that tells you how far off-base it has veered:

------

Judy Rebick:

 

“The NDP, so far anyway in their program, they’ve moved to the right of the Liberals,” she said.

“I know lots of people who have ripped up their cards, decided not to donate and they’re even considering not voting.”

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/1342879/ontario-election-traditional-ndp-suppo...

jerrym

 The Northern Ontario debate is scheduled from 12:15 to 1:15 p.m. on May 26 at the Valhalla Inn in Thunder Bay. 

http://www.noma.on.ca/debate

 

Quote:

Monday's debate is open to the public, but registration is required and there is a fee of $45.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/tim-hudak-confi...

It is obviously not open to the poor and I don't agree that the public should have to pay to listen to politicians, especially during an election campaign. 

Quote:

Meanwhile, a new poll finds that 56 per cent of residents in northern Ontario feel the provincial government has done "a poor or very poor job of managing the affairs of the north."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/provincial-lead...

With this level of dissatisfaction with the Liberals in the North and the unwillingness of Hudak to attend the debate, Horwath has an excellent environment, at least in the North, for taking on Wynne. 

 

Rokossovsky

Rebick, sadly, despite the great deal of great work she has done, is completely out in space on what "left" and "right" are. Anyone who actually thinks the Liberal budget is anything but an austerity budget is only focussing on the expenditures, not on who is paying for what, or how it is being paid for.

Rebick seems to operating as the political version of a "native informant".

NorthReport

Why are the Liberals afraid to debate the economy?

Why aren't the Liberal supporters here not clammering for an econiomic debate?

What is Wynne afraid of? 

What are the Liberals afraid of?

Wynne can run but she can't hide the economic mess the Liberals have created in Ontario. 

The result of the Liberal efforts have now made Ontario a have-not province.

Link

Quebec will receive the most from equalization payments in the 2013-2014 year.[4]

However, per capita, PEI benefits the most. In the 2013-2014 year, the following provinces will receive equalization payments:[4]

  • Quebec ($7.833 billion)
  • Ontario ($3.169 billion)
  • Manitoba ($1.792 billion)
  • New Brunswick ($1.513 billion)
  • Nova Scotia ($1.458 billion)
  • Prince Edward Island ($340 million)

The following provinces will not qualify for equalization payments in 2013-2014:[4]

  • Alberta
  • Saskatchewan
  • Newfoundland and Labrador
  • British Columbia

 

 

NDP's Andrea Horwath pushes for economy-focused debate

Horwath said jobs and the economy are topics important enough to have their own debate in this campaign.

 "One of the things I'm concerned about is that we're not focusing enough on [the economy] in this campaign," Horwath said Monday during a campaign stop at a north Toronto bakery.

 "I do believe the people in this province need to get an understanding of what the party leaders believe are the best ways to stimulate job creation and to get people back to work in this province."

 

 

Rokossovsky

NR, please. Equalization payments are handed out on a per capita basis. These kind of gross figures are usually used by Conservatives to attack the equalization program, and Ontario, and in particular Quebec.

Equalization payments are good. Quebec is also good.

PEI is actually the greatest recipient of equalization payments per capita and Ontario is lowest, and Quebec is second lowest.

NorthReport

Kathleen Wynne shakes the hand of charged fraudster Joe Fontana

She refused to meet Ford – who hasn’t been charged with anything, amazingly – and that was absolutely the right position to take. She should have never met with Fontana. Huge, huge mistake.

 

 

Aristotleded24

Am I the only one who gets the sense that this feels like the federal campaign of 2005-2006?

Rokossovsky

That's not my feeling at all. No one was accussing Jack Layton of being Adolph Hitler because he theoretically turned down a National Daycare Program, moreover, the end point result of all that was the NDP becoming the official opposition in 2010.

Rokossovsky

North Report. That is an interesting thing about the municipal mayors. City Council in Toronto officially asked for the Liberals to institute a preferential voting system so as to avoid the Rob Ford follies in the future in Toronto. No one can figure out why this no-brainer didn't take off at Queens Park, since obviously the Liberals would like to get rid of Ford and prevent that happening again.

So why all the foot dragging? Simple, there is a very good chance that a preferential system would not be to the advantage of Liberal incumbent mayors such as Joe Fontana, who might be ousted pretty quickly under such a system.

NorthReport

Ontario has been economically mismanaged.

Ontario is Canada's most populous have-not province.

Thank goodness for Ontario that Canada has an equalization process.

However becoming a have-not province is not some goal that a province sets out to achieve.

Eventually though collectively we all have to pay our bills.

And the sooner the better.

THE LIBERAL RECORD: 10 YEARS OF MISMANAGEMENT

 

 

 

 

 

Aristotleded24

Rokossovsky wrote:
That's not my feeling at all. No one was accussing Jack Layton of being Adolph Hitler because he theoretically turned down a National Daycare Program

Maybe not Adolf Hitler, but there are similarities, such as the NDP being accused of letting a "good" Liberal government fall for partisan gain only to hand the election over to the conservatives, and in each case it's not clear that holding off an election would have made a difference on that front anyways. I also get the sense of Horwath being a bit slow out of the gate at the start, as was Jack in 2005.

The fact that some people to this day continue to blame Jack Layton for Stephen Harper's ascension is another matter, but that is a topic for a different thread.

JKR

NorthReport wrote:

Ontario has been economically mismanaged.

Ontario is Canada's most populous have-not province.

Thank goodness for Ontario that Canada has an equalization process.

However becoming a have-not province is not some goal that a province sets out to achieve.

Eventually though collectively we all have to pay our bills.

And the sooner the better.

That's the spin Conservatives are currently spinning but here are the plain facts:

Federal Underfunding of Ontarians

Quote:

Since 2006, the federal government has taken more than 110 unilateral actions that have hurt people and businesses across Ontario and undermined the Province’s fiscal plan. Each and every year, the share of federal revenue raised in Ontario is higher than the share of federal spending in Ontario. This results in an $11 billion gap according to most recently available figures. In 2014–15, Ontarians will be contributing $4.5 billion more to Equalization than the Province is receiving in payments. While this money could be used in Ontario to fund more hospitals, nurses or public transit, it is redistributed to other regions of Canada to subsidize programs and services that Ontarians themselves may not enjoy.

...

According to the Mowat Centre, the people of Ontario contributed $11 billion more to the federal government than they received in return in 2009–10 (the year with the latest available data). This represents about $850 per Ontarian.

“Ontarians transfer approximately $11B on net to the rest of Canada. This transfer is equivalent to 1.9% of the province’s GDP. This can be referred to as the gap between what Ontarians contribute to the federal government and what is returned to the province in the form of transfers and spending.”

Noah Zon, “Filling the Gap: Measuring Ontario’s Balance with the Federation,” Mowat Centre, (2013).

...

The difference between what the people of Ontario will pay into the Equalization program through federal taxes and what the Province will receive from the program is $4.5 billion in 2014–15, and has reached $43 billion over the last 10 years.

 

 

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