Ex-students at Montréal Institute for the Deaf speak out about child sexual abuse

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Unionist
Ex-students at Montréal Institute for the Deaf speak out about child sexual abuse

Unionist

Last March, Québec Superior Court approved a class action by about 60 ex-students of the Institut des sourds de Montréal against 28 clerics and 4 lay people, alleging sexual abuse that happened about 40 years ago.

Tomorrow evening, on Radio-Canada's investigative program Enquête, some of them will speak out publicly for the first time.

The Institute was run by the Clercs de St-Viateurs, a Catholic religious order.

More to come.

 

lagatta

And of course the lovely old building housing the Institut is in the process of conversion into high-end condos! 

ryanw

Fidel wrote:

Well if we could just close the Churches and ban the priesthood, the world would be well rid.  And what about all those doctors, teachers, and foster parents who've abused kids? That's right, we should ban doctoring,

I think we can celebrate the end of the "wait outside and fill out this paperwork" era of healthcare

doctors at least no longer have the opportunity they once did

Fidel

Condos? And are they built with stones recycled from rubble of the monasteries?

Well if we could just close the Churches and ban the priesthood, the world would be well rid.  And what about all those doctors, teachers, and foster parents who've abused kids? That's right, we should ban doctoring, public schools and foster parenting, too. Better safe than sorry. "Gavel smak" Sometimes it just goes without saying. Next!

 Old kings Billy & Henry should have both been neutered.

Fidel

And with no fingers I can count the number of Catholic boys schools built in the last several decades as well.

Yes, we really do need free markets in doctors, dentists and other professions, too, but they're having none of it. Laissez-fairer types only believe in competition for working class slobs not the 10% or so bourgeois upper middle class.  Somebody has to vote for the baloney every four years or whenever the opinion polls say they should make snap election calls for short-term political gain.

lagatta

I don't quite get what you are saying, Fidel. Nobody is calling for the abolition of religious orders - simply that perpetrators of child abuse must face justice, whatever their profession or calling. 

Indeed this school (the boys' one - the girls' one is farther south in Plateau Mont-Royal) took in and educated and provided vocational training to deaf children when disabled children were not accommodated and often not allowed in the mainstream system. This school had a print shop; I believe it still runs. There were several associations helping deaf and hearing-disabled people in the building until it was converted to condos; now they are in another building in the neighbourhood that also provides social housing to hearing-disabled people (winning that was an important victory). 

No rubble - the lovely old building is being renovated. http://www.devmcgill.com/condominiumcastelnau/fr/ It is opposite métro de Castelnau and right next to Jarry Park - the Jean-Talon Market is less than five minutes' walk, and the big Loblaws at the corner of Parc and Jean-Talon is very close in the other direction. Lots of cafés, restaurants etc nearby in Little Italy and Villeray. 

Of course my tenants' association wanted at least part of it to become social housing. The boroughs have an interest in developing expensive housing for their tax base - grrrrrr. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Fidel would like us all to forget the catholic churches record.  His constant refrain whenever the matter arises is  "move along nothing to see here." As a survivor of abuse I can say that like many things it is what an institution does after the fact that is critical. The catholic church spends big bucks to engage lawyers to legally beat up on people who have been abused by priests. 

Fidel you may want us to forget but we will not. The culture of the catholic church is part and parcel of the problem and its hierarchical elite actively tries to screw victims in court after priest have screwed them in private.

Fidel

No I'm not saying that we should forget the Church's record. Higher ups in the Church have admitted and confessed to every wrong the

Church has ever perpetrated and citing sins of the Church as far back as the inquisition. Does anyone care that there have probably been many more African-Americans imprisoned in America and ongoing today than were ever imprisoned during the entire history of the Catholic inquisition?   I think everyone willl find that Catholics are not behind the door when it comes to confessions.

I think what people are pissed off about is the arrogance of the Church dating back centuries. And they are pissed off at some percentage of priests who've abused kids. And, no doubt, it's a high likelihood that there are still pedophiles getting away with it today.

But I think that the news media are portraying the wrong message when they focus on pedophilia involving the Church. Is it true that only Catholic priests have abused children? No, that would be misleading and just plain wrong. You don't have to be a Catholic to be a sinner, is what I'm saying. They may claim that Jesus is head of the Church, but she's harbored some terrible sinners for many centuries. The Church recognizes that no one is without sin, and it's truer of some more than others.

In my opinion what the world needs is one big giant confession of sins - a kind of Glasnost but for the entire western world. The whole western world political and financial system is rotten to the core not just the Church.

And so I think the real question here is, how do we stop crimes against children? How successful has society in general been in stopping pedophiles from abusing children? What is the incidence of pedophilia? Who knows or even cares?  Do the justice system and governments need to do more than they have in order to protect children? Yes, I think they do for some reason. Off the top of my head I can think of a number of instances when governments in this country alone have done SFA to protect children from poor health and poverty and never mind pedophilia and child neglect. In fact, I think sometimes that they just don't give a shit about children except when other issues and ulterior motives are behind their sudden and often spontaneous concern for children.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

When the catholic churchas an institution stops not only denying the abuse that has happened but stops obstructing people who have been abused Ill think about it.

As for their bullshit media mea culpas fuck them. The Basilian's gave me a nice pamphlet explaining all the good thing they were doing to prevent it and how sorry they were that it had happened in the past.  A wonderful propaganda piece.  It didn't resonate well with me since it came after 6 years of litigation where I had to gamble everything I owned to get a proper settlement.  The church leadership are lying assholes.  That being said I like a lot of Catholics and they are not to blame for the crimes and coverups committed bt the church elites.

You are right Fidel that we must tell our children to be wary of people they know not strangers.  Pedophiles go to were the children are. Any place there are children may be infected with a pedophile but that is different than talking about the church because the church as an institution has it carved into its DNA. The catholic church is a two thousand year old institution that has been abusing people including children for most of that time.

Fidel

Yes, and although priests are not trained to investigate serious crimes such as sexual abuse and child rape, they should be volunteering more information to the cops than they do. Unfortunately it will continue to be a situation that pedophiles gamble on the high likelihood that children will not blow whistles on their abusers. Kids need to be taught that not only is it not okay for the priest to touch them in inappropriate ways, it's also not okay for uncle Herman or the neighbor to touch their private parts. And the parents need a kick in the ass when they find out that uncle Herman really is abusing their child and decide not to act on it anyway. And not just because Uncle Herman is living in the basement and unemployed without a dime to pay for reparations to his victim but because it's the proper thing to do. Yes uncle Herman is a human being, and yes these things tend to embarrass families. But so is the victim a human being with rights.

The feds and RCMP crime investigators have ignored thousands of criminals living in our country and pointed out to them by Nazi hunters in Israel and the former USSR.  They knew that scum of the earth were living in Canada, and many under their real names, and collecting Canadian pensions for years and years. If we think the feds in Canada and USA were very concerned about justice for the last 60 years, I can say for sure that it's not entirely true.

Unionist

Wow, this has become quite the conversation.

About 60 people, who were subjected to fellatio and touching and had authority figures masturbate in front of them when they were kids - deaf kids - are now seeking $100,000 each in a class action suit. Most of the abusers are now dead. May God grant them greater peace than they imposed on their victims.

The Clercs de St-Viateur haven't even run that place since 1982. It's just cleaning up the horrors of the past, and doing a little something to help people whose lives were destroyed when they were very young, disabled, and vulnerable.

I personally would love to live long enough to see the Catholic Church and other similar anti-human criminal organizations collapse in ruins. I will be inviting lots of friends over for a rather raucous celebration on that day. But that's just a personal sentiment. Others care deeply about these religious institutions, and I tolerate their feelings, even if I don't understand them.

In the meantime, I think the least we can do is to support victims, win compensation, and if any of the villains are still alive, drag them before the bar of justice and make them pay for their crimes.

Surely we can all agree on that?

6079_Smith_W

One would think it should be that simple.

 

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
In the meantime, I think the least we can do is to support victims, win compensation, and if any of the villains are still alive, drag them before the bar of justice and make them pay for their crimes.

Surely we can all agree on that?

Yes.  And I think the feds and provinces could do more to provide incentives to blow whistles and prosecute criminals in cases where there are no deep pockets for compensation to award victims.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Fidel the thing that makes the catholic church different is the extent of the culture of looking the other way and its propensity for making victims of abuse jump as many hoops as possible before paying damages for some of the harm done. I know enough about the legal system to know that the church could have already settled with this group.  Instead they are forcing this stressful litigation upon the church's victims and that to me is a doubling down on the abuse.

Fidel

I was saying before that the Church was merely following the same advice offered them by psychologists who also advised the sports colleges, hospital boards, school boards, boy scouts, children's aid societies and so on. The advice was to serverely chastise and then "move" the accused to another district, chapter, schoolboard, whatever, just don't admit there is a problem and your funding and memberships will get past it.

That's not good enough anymore apparently. But who will compensate the 40 or 50 year-old woman who was abused by her father and uncles for years? What about the doctor in rural anywhere whose services are so scarce they are willing to put up with it? The schoolboard doesn't have any money, though. And the creepy doctor and dentist simply moved to and practicing in another province while the CMA and dentists union know all about their hobbies.  

6079_Smith_W

Fidel,

This is about survivors asking compensation for systemic child sexual abuse.

I know this "who's got it worse" game is standard fare around here, but I'd say it's not appropriate in this case. Really not appropriate.

Nor does it really accomplish anything, because once you start that game, there's always going to be someone with a cause that is more important than yours.

How about we deal with those other important issues in other threads?

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Saying the catholic church is not worse than Big Brothers is akin to saying the US military is the same as the New Zealand military since they have both killed people.  As for the professional 'devils" who made the church do it I guess I will have to remember that the next time I hear about a gang killing.  Its not the fucking gangsters fault, its the lawyer they hired who is to blame.

Until  you want to address the reason why these people have had to file a class action suit instead of the catholic church doing the right thing I say screw off and quit polluting this thread with your apologies for evil.

Fidel

And I've said nothing of what I think of your actual concern for the welfare of children in general. I wouldn't suggest hypocrisy on the part of either of you at any time. Not me. And don't forget the terrible things the Church did to upset the mass murdering Henry VIII and even after that. Because it's totaly relevant in the here and now. I don't think there is a statute of limitations on wrongs perpetrated in medieval times. I could be wrong about that, so don't quote me. But if we can be sure about anything, it's that justice delayed is justice denied. Let's continue building our centuries-old parasitic family of Stuart-Hanover-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-"Windsor" case for liquidation of the Catholic Church and every other man-made institution where a duty of care owed the public in general was ever breached. How about capitalists and absentee corporate raiders themselves for 300 year's worth of mass murder and general mayhem to prop-up industrialism? Our list is long and time slipping away, but they must be made to pay for their crimes. The clock is ticking as they say.  But we are on a mission not from God, but for the sake of a babble argument. Never forget.

kropotkin wrote:
Saying the catholic church is not worse than Big Brothers is akin to saying the US military is the same as the New Zealand military since they have both killed people.

What is the incidence of sexual abuse of children across society in general? Does anyone know? I might bet that it happens in at least as many countries as Uncle Sam has foreign bases. i.e. around the world in hundreds of countries.  I don't think we can know, but there are estimates, and many of the perpretrators are very probably just not worth suing in courts of law. Nobody cares about them or their victims enough to hire lawyers apparently. Sad but true. But this blaming the Catholic Church for everything that was ever hatched of imperialism-feudalism-colonialism & now predatory capitalism is just not on for very many people including me. I tend not to not agree with your flimsy, slip-shod, illogical and even leap-of-faith style of arguments when harmonizing with the tune played when the old cow died out in the field where the big red barn used to be, sorry.

I'd suggest focusing on the child victims abused at Institut des sourds de Montréal 40 years ago, i.e. the actual topic of discussion. For the sake of the victims, and for the sake of credible discussion, And I shall promise not to mention that old megalomaniacal mass-murdering psychopath of inbred blueblood infamy, King Henry, nor any of his bigoted anti-Catholic, inbred, half-sane relatives since,  ever again this thread. Deal or no deal.

ryanw

Fidel wrote:

I'd suggest focusing on the child victims abused at Institut des sourds de Montréal 40 years ago, i.e. the actual topic of discussion.

I'm not sure if you're allowed to suggest that if you're the only one not doing that

lagatta

It is not at all the same as Protestant "anti-Papist" bigotry. I have relatives who have experienced the latter, in the bad old days (in Eastern Ontario; bigotry against French and Irish). Of course the Anglican Church has done the same, at least in Native residential schools, as have other religious dominations. 

The ex-pupils here in Québec were Québécois francophones and at least nominally Catholic, just as the orphans in Newfoundland were. When they were in the residential school, cut off from their famiilies and home friends, they were completely under the control of a very retrograde version of the Church. Moreover, prejudice against people with disabilities was very strong then; they were seen as somehow lesser beings and nobody would make the effort to "hear" them even if they were to speak out.

Anti-Catholic bigotry was nasty indeed in English-speaking Canada and of course in Britain itself, but has become rather a moot point nowadays. Right-wing Catholics refer to this past bigotry to dream up apologies for both abuses perpetrated by members of the clergy and for the Church's reactionary policies with respect to women and LGBT people. "Catholic Civil Rights" was a progressive call in Derry; a reactionary one in contemporary Canada. 

It rather resembles the Zionists shrouding their misdeeds towards the Palestinian people in the evils done to the Jewish people in the past. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Fidel I have no idea what growing up in a protestant family would be like.  The reason my abuser was a priest and I was one of his victims was precisely because I was catholic.  My Mom was head of the CWL and my Dad was involved in the K of C.  So I am not sure what Protestants have to do with this story.

These children were abused at an institution run by the church.  In human rights cases there is the concept of ongoing discrimination.  A history of abuse does not get purged if the abuse continues. The church by fighting these victims instead of compensating them justly is continuing the abuse and thus the sins of the past are indeed part of the pattern of continuing abuse.

You have not answered for the present day abuse by the church.  Is the devil making them put these victims through the hell of litigation?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

This story is not just about historic abuse it is about systemic ongoing abuse.  The first abuse was sexual and the ongoing abuse is psychological. I have said above that the church is guilty of not just sexual abuse but legal abuse also.  This groups has already felt the sexual abuse part and the reason i am pissed is that the church is now doing the legal abuse piece to them an then you have the audacity to talk about these people while defending the perpetrator of the ongoing abuse.

But apparently even on babble abuse victims can have people tell them to shut the fuck up and not discuss the abusers amongst us. Fidel as a twice victimized survivor (sexually and then legally} of the church you are so vehemently defending may I say [edited]

Unionist

WARNING: Some of the text and the 31-minute Radio-Canada video may be difficult, especially for survivors/victims.

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/literacy/raiseareader/Lawsuit+alleges+doz... alleges dozens of clergy abused children at Montreal school for deaf [in English] [/url]

[url=http://www.radio-canada.ca/widgets/mediaconsole/medianet/6495646]Radio-C...'s Enquête report: The Perfect Victims [in French only][/url]

Unionist

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/rally+support+lawsuit+priests/7607... rally to support lawsuit vs. priests[/url]

Quote:
For some 200 demonstrators who massed and marched quietly Sunday afternoon near a former school for deaf and mute youngsters, it’s time, in the words of a sign one protester carried, for the Clercs de Saint-Viateur to “stop defending the indefensible.”

The culprits have finally responded:

Quote:

“We condemn any act of pedophilia,” the release quoted Father Roger Brosseau, a spokesperson for the Clercs de Saint-Viateur.

If those acts took place, we regret them,” Brosseau’s statement added.

But if our high-price lawyers can show a reasonable doubt as to what happened - then we don't regret them.

 

lagatta

That is a wonderful turnout for such a rally. Bravo les Sourd(e)s!

Some of these people attended our community group meetings (Solidarités Villeray) about the fire-sale of the Institut to condo developers. We were demanding that community gorups located in the building, including many serving the deaf and hearing-disabled community, be allowed to stay, and for social housing to be built. 

The Deaf associations did win construction of a building for social housing and community groups elsewhere in Villeray (though it is not so centrally located, and I think its closeness to Boulevard métropolitain is not just an issue in terms of noise pollution). 

Due to its beauty and it location (right next to the large Jarry Park, opposite a métro station, very close to Jean-Talon Market, a big Loblaws and the shops (not only Italian, also East and South Asian, and Maghrebi/Middle-Eastern) in the area, the former Institute and its grounds are worth a fortune. 

Unfortunately for me, my housing cooperative had a special General Meeting last afternoon, so I couldn't pop over to the rally. 

Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:
I have said above that the church is guilty of not just sexual abuse but legal abuse also.

I think you would have to prove that someone else knew about the abuse and did nothing. Once again, this was 40 years ago, and the justice system was probably busy indicting innocent people of crimes they never committed then. And as we`ve noted before, the justice people had Nazi war criminals right under their noses and did nothing about it. I really don`t think the Church could have done a better job than those on the public payroll  and whose duty it was/is to investigate and even prosecute those who were guilty of mass murder in a lot of cases - thousands of cases. There are thousands of actual mass murderers from WWII era who were never prosecuted for any crimes whatsoever. We're talking about Canadian justice here, so, HEllo?

It's like your Social Credit government under Vander Zalm and old line party crooks in general. As soon as guilt appears imminent they step down from office to avoid being prosecuted to the full extent. Before that happens, though, taxpayers can pickup the tab for their legal bills. 

Doctors in Canada also enjoy full insurance coverage by the doctor's union. In Canada, someone in line for a gallstone operation is assigned whatever doctor is available to do the job. If he's botched every gallstone op he's ever done, you'll never know that until after he's botched yours, too. And the doctor's union protects their quacks ever step of the way, and same goes for doctors and dentists who sexually abuse their patients.

On the other hand, the Church hasn't maintained "official" records on which of their priests botch the job. That information isn't known until after a victim comes forward and accuses the priest of a crime and too often many years after the fact. It's the nature of sexual abuse, and sex abusers know that time is on their side in a lot of cases.

I think what the Church needs is similar to what governments need - a policy to support whistleblowers. And the justice system needs to do its job, too. In the U.S., for example, the justice system is in dire need of cleaning up corruption in general within the system itself and with respect to a lot more than Church abuse scandals. Financial crooks have gotten away with murder in both the US and Canada and costing the economy tens of billions of dollars every year. That's money that could be used to compensate sex abuse victims of various  American and Canadian institutions in general. They are not interested in cleaning up the corruption, though. It`s not even on their agenda.

But that`s okay because we have the Catholic Church to blame for all sexual abuse. The Church has lots of money, and the lawyers are all over it like flies on a picnic basket.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

No Fidel I mean 2012 not 40 years ago.  The church is forcing these victims through the hell of litigation instead of settling the claims and acknowledging their responsibility.  Why do they keep refusing to do the right thing?

Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:

No Fidel I mean 2012 not 40 years ago.  The church is forcing these victims through the hell of litigation instead of settling the claims and acknowledging their responsibility.  Why do they keep refusing to do the right thing?

Because the right to be presumed innocent is protected under the Constitution? Right to a fair trial and all that?  I'm not sure what you are saying.

40 years ago the feds were convicting people like David Milgaard of crimes they never committed.

40 years ago there were WW II era mass murderers living in Canada under their real names and, later, collected Canadian pensions into their twilight years and fearing not the legal system in Canada. And the feds knew all about them because Israel and the Sovs pointed it out to them on a fairly constant basis.

40 years ago the Red Cross was busy mass murdering thousands of Canadians with tainted blood.

Legal Aid itself only began in Canada about 40 years ago.

Just 30 years ago Clifford Olson already had a criminal record for sexual offenses long before he was ever convicted of murdering children. Why did the justice system fail the victims who he raped, tortured and murdered?

How did Russell Williams ever get to become a colonel in the Canadian Military? Did Williams merely neglect to list hobbies on his resume?

Are you saying the Church is refusing to compensate victims of abuse? Because I don't think that's true, either.

What I think is that kids can be manipulated by the unscrupulous far too easily, and that better protection measures need to be developed. Whistleblower policies need to be written and scrutinized by the public. There needs to be transparency and accountability in alll our western world institutions, man-made and otherwise. But basically the most vulnerable in society need protecting from abuse as well as poverty and violence in general.

And lastly, I don't think we can leave it up to the priesthood to sniff out child molestors. I wouldn't hire a baker to fix the plumbing - I'd hire a plumber. SImilarly, I wouldn't ask a carpenter to fix my car.  If we want to crackdown on pedophiles raping children, I think the legal system needs to play a significant role in getting the job done.  That's what I think. 40 years later? It's far too late by then for the irreparable damage done to the victims. They are dregs of society - the Church has no monopoly on dregs. We've managed to create a free market in dregs. It's a societal problem, and society has to own up to it and do something about it.

ryanw

if I was hearing impaired and had to constantly advocate and define myself to anyone I would meet my entire life AND I went to school 40 years earlier with some chums who were getting together for a class action suit because they were abused, I.... would ...probably get on that bandwagon because its easier and that's how I have gotten through life to that point.

NO WAIT... its probably because I was also abused

and that's what a reasonable court would take into consideration in allowing it to proceed, but at the same time resign myself as a learned court official that it will go no where without assistance from an entity in massive decline which COULD have comfortably paid restitution decades earlier and simultaneously halted the exodus of its members who were disgusted by the broken tennents

deny deny deny

Unionist

Fidel wrote:

And lastly, I don't think we can leave it up to the priesthood to sniff out child molestors.

Most of the bastards are dead now. In the hands of the Lord.

Quote:
If we want to crackdown on pedophiles raping children, I think the legal system needs to play a significant role in getting the job done. 

Québec Superior Court approved a class action. I'm sure, given your concern for the legal system, you will fully support the court in getting justice for these victims.

Unionist

Sorry Fidel, I misread one of your paragraphs, so I've edited my post to delete that bizarre comment. My mistake.

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
Québec Superior Court approved a class action. I'm sure, given your concern for the legal system, you will fully support the court in getting justice for these victims.

Yes, absolutely. The bastards deserve whatever they get. I do not support child abuse no matter who does it.

Fidel

Well sure it was an egregious error on my part. "They" would necessarily refer to the subject noun "victims" in the previous poorly constructed sentence blurted out in haste by me. Thanks for cutting me some slack. Some people dislike spelling flames. My weakness is spelling, grammar, syntax, semantics, and English language in general. And thanks for pointing it out in jest. I must try harder.

MegB

Fidel, you're derailing an important thread by trying to detract from the issue discussed.  If you can't discuss the particular subject at hand, look for your particular issues in another thread.

Thank you.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Fidel in my case the church stymied me in court for six years despite the fact that the documents that they coughed up in the process showed they had sent this pedophile to treatment over a decade before I filed my law suit. By the way in that treatment he admitted to abusing hundreds of victims. They pushed me to the brink of bankruptcy and suicide before they finally came to the table and settled.  The church tries to fuck over litigants they are not being honourable they are being horrible.  Honourable people admit to wrongdoing and try to make amends not put the victims through a different kind of hell.

Fidel

Rebecca West wrote:

Fidel, you're derailing an important thread by trying to detract from the issue discussed.  If you can't discuss the particular subject at hand, look for your particular issues in another thread.

Thank you.

No I am not derailing anything here. Some of us are describing priests and Catholics as "evil", which is absolute nonsense. It's just dumb to characterize other human beings as evil. There is no attempt at dialog here in the peanut gallery of insults and personal attack encouraged by moderators.

I think that adult converation is impossible in this and other threads where these same individuals work hard to have mine and other babblers posting privileges suspended. Personal attacks is what they do and how they get off online. And it's your job, apparently, to satisfy their every whim, beck and call.

6079_Smith_W

Fidel, no one described all catholics as evil. In fact no one had a chance to say much at all before you made this assumption at post #3.

I'm sure you know I 'd be right there calling bullshit on anti-religious discrimination, but that's not what this is about. This is about systemic abuse of children by a powerful organization and some of its members, and that same group denying responsibility,  covering up and making things difficult for those who are trying to seek restitution.

The examples you are bringing up don't even relate directly to the thread subject.

 

 

Unionist

The victims are Catholics. The protestors claiming justice are Catholics. So yes. This is about Catholics.

The evil? That would be the Catholic Church, and the political and financial elite with which it partnered in running Québec for so long. There's only vestiges left of that church now. But they must pay for their sins.

Fidel

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Fidel, no one described all catholics as evil.

And no one said what you said I said wrt "all", so there.

  First foaming mouth reference to the word in post #17 accusing me of apologizing for evil, and other derogatory remarks of a personal nature. And now because I am not chiming-in with referring to other human beings as evil, Winston Smith decides to have a go at old Fidel with his own style of bizarre accusations. And I won't mention your previous baseless accusations against me concerning "Jewish bankers" and "the internet" in another thread - the one which demonstrated how Google does not support those wild accusations against me, either. Anyway, back at the ranch...

How many here would actually support more prison time for child molestors in Canada?  It's my guess that not many of us would. Let's not be that hard child molestors, they might say. The issue here is not child molestation in general, because the subject might seem too boring to start a thread discussing it in-depth. We have our monster, and we won't be letthing him run off so soon. Few  villagers would light torches and run through the streets to track down evol if we were talking about a family physician or daycare worker charged with molesting a child. Few here would be caught dead in a discussion acknowledging that most cases of molestation of children under the age of 15 are just not reported in Canada. I know, this is not just about Catholics - but it's the cold truth.

Fidel

Yes, let's keep the discussion carefully and narrowly focused on Catholics and Catholics only. Everyone and his dog Toto knows that children are safe from child molestors as long as they don't go to Church. Isn't that right, Unionist?

Is that why the babbling brigade of bullshit is launching wave after wave of personal attacks against me here, for talking about child molestation sans Catholics? Get real! The village called, and they said to say they want their idiots back.

ryanw

Fidel wrote:

How many here would actually support more prison time for child molestors in Canada?  It's my guess that not many of us would. Let's not be that hard child molestors, they might say. The issue here is not child molestation in general, because the subject might seem too boring to start a thread discussing it in-depth. We have our monster, and we won't be letthing him run off so soon. Few  villagers would light torches and run through the streets to track down evol if we were talking about a family physician or daycare worker charged with molesting a child. Few here would be caught dead in a discussion acknowledging that most cases of molestation of children under the age of 15 are just not reported in Canada. I know, this is not just about Catholics - but it's the cold truth.

is this a deliberate attempt to merge this topic with the swear thread?

onlinediscountanvils

ryanw wrote:

Fidel wrote:

How many here would actually support more prison time for child molestors in Canada?  It's my guess that not many of us would. Let's not be that hard child molestors, they might say. The issue here is not child molestation in general, because the subject might seem too boring to start a thread discussing it in-depth. We have our monster, and we won't be letthing him run off so soon. Few  villagers would light torches and run through the streets to track down evol if we were talking about a family physician or daycare worker charged with molesting a child. Few here would be caught dead in a discussion acknowledging that most cases of molestation of children under the age of 15 are just not reported in Canada. I know, this is not just about Catholics - but it's the cold truth.

is this a deliberate attempt to merge this topic with the swear thread?

Laughing

Fidel

I am not familiar with you or the horse you rode in on. You haven't said much worth commenting on. I think you are a bystander and a coward who takes potshots from the sidelines where it's safe.

But I know certain other babblers' posting history, and if it's anything to do with Catholics, then it's evil. Pure evil.

Are we interested in the welfare of children in this thread, or is it just anti-Catholic bigotry that wants feeding?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Gee Fidel it is a joy to see you whine about personal insults in one post and then post this tripe shortly after.  Might I suggest the catholic thing to do is to take the plank out of your eye before complaining about the sawdust that were other peoples "personal attacks."

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Fidel, Rebecca has already warned you. Please stay out of this thread from now on.

Fidel

Well we all know by now that both you and Rebecca are out to lunch half the time anyway.

Hate speech

I can not post on babble any longer if referring to people as "evil" is condoned by moderators of an alleged progressive forum. Try using your heads as something other than hatracks.

MegB

Keep up that level of insult and you won't be able to post on babble any longer.

Sincerely,

Rebecca "jack-booted fascist moderator" West

Fidel

Evil thoughts, and yes, hatred, too, thrive wherever jackboot fascist mods do nothing.

I don't hate anyone or refer to them as evil. I know you don't understand or comprehend such complex human ideas.

It's too bad. I think a little less of you all now as a result.

I think babble has become a forum for those who LOVE to HATE to send us notes expressing their daily hatreds. I think hatred has marinated and pickled their minds for so long that every other idea tastes the same, like shards of glass radiating outward toward anyone trying to understand not "evil" but actual human beings.

It's become toxic here.

Perhaps this place really isn't for me anymore.

bye

Unionist

Meanwhile, in another case - involving the largest settlement to be agreed by a religious order in Canada - not a penny has yet been paid, and the victims continue to suffer degradation and humiliation by the arrogant clerics who are exacting revenge for having been caught covering up the abuse for decades:

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/abuse+victims+face+more+delays/77726... abuse victims face more delays[/url]

Quote:
There were tears, comforting hugs, and exasperated sighs Thursday from men who were sexually abused by members of Congrégation de Ste. Croix as the powerful order once again tried to delay paying out $18 million in compensation more than a year after a settlement was reached. [...]

A total of 220 former students are part of the class-action suit against the order, which owns St. Joseph’s Oratory and several other properties. Only 25 cases have been settled since the deal was reached 15 months ago, but no one has received a cent.

The victims have to go through a complicated process in which they detail the abuse they suffered, how often and what the impact has been on their lives. The order’s lawyers then decide whether to accept the claim, or send it to an adjudicator. To date they have contested between 70 and 80 per cent of the cases, while others are sitting on their desks. [...]

For decades, the order denied and covered up widespread sexual abuse — knowledge of which went all the way to the Vatican. But faced with inside documents showing that some victims had been paid to keep quiet, and how complaints from others were ignored, the order was forced to apologize and pay amends. The settlement is the biggest in Canada to be paid out by a religious order.

In Montreal, the order has about $50 million in assets, including investments and property. Recently, the brothers joined together with the province’s Fathers of Holy Cross to create one entity worth close to $100 million.

Unionist

Further to the previous post:

[url=http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/holy-cross-dragging-heels-on-18-m-sex-abuse-c... Cross dragging heels on $18 M sex abuse compensation: victims [/url]

Quote:
Victims of the Holy Cross sex abuse scandal – a congregation which has recognized abuse at several of the schools it ran in Quebbec – were in court Tuesday trying to force the religious order to speed up the slow payment process. [...]

The judge ruled that assessors were working at a reasonable pace, and could not say they were acting in bad faith. However it will still take months, and possibly another full year, before the case is over.

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