New sovereignist formation - Nouveau Mouvement pour le Québec

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Unionist
New sovereignist formation - Nouveau Mouvement pour le Québec

ummmmm.....

Unionist

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Quebec+separatist+party+emerges/5262... movement seeks to reopen sovereignty debate[/url]

This particular article doesn't mention it, but Gérald Larose is involved as well - retired head of Québec's largest trade union federation, the CSN. He was also a leading member of the SPQ Libre, which was a sort of club within the PQ of trade unionists, intellectuals and others who were to the left of the mainstream party and also generally more interested in pushing the sovereignty cause. They were de-recognized by the PQ about 18 months ago (if memory serves), as part of the PQ's relentless drive to prove that they are Liberals in disguise.

Now that the PQ doesn't appear to be pushing either sovereignty or progressive social causes much, even the stalwarts who stuck with it to the end appear to be disheartened - especially with the devastation of the Bloc. Rather than a party, they appear to be trying for a "movement" and say they will unite with any who share their goals - they didn't rule out alliance with Québec solidaire in one interview I heard.

My question is, why not just rally to QS? Too socialistic for them? Still worrying about splitting the sovereignist vote? I think that train has left the station. Maybe Quebeckers have spoken and said that they will not unquestioningly vote on the "federalism vs. sovereignty" basis, but rather on the basis of a "projet de société", a program for society, which reflects their values and aspirations. That could mean Canada, it could mean Québec, but it definitely means more than just preparing for the next referendum.

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

This appears at this point to be a slow media day story.  Really a petition with 87 signatures? 

From the comments it does appear to bring out a lot of the worst in people. I notice that the most vile opinions are spouted by those who love the term ROC, most of whom seem to live in Montreal. The term itself is a divisive and leads to a lets fight type of framing of the issues.  As a Westerner I support Quebec's right to self determination but not its right to dictate the future relationships of the provinces and territories to each other and to the new country of Quebec.  That as always is where the rubber hits the road and that road has so many speed bumps and pot holes that it is anyone's guess where the movement will take Quebec.

I support the right of the US to have its own country but I don't want deep integration with it.  Even though we are getting it without any democratic consensus I still don't like it.  I think that if Quebec secedes it would want to join in a common market relationship with Ontario and Ontarian's would likely agree.  However that common market especially EU style would be virtually economically irrelevant to BC.  Even in the EU it is becoming apparent that the major players are dominating and the periphery are only alone for the ride.  I will be opposing any deal that sets up an EU style deal with BC as a junior player in a reinvented Upper and Lower Canada.

Quote:

The group published its manifesto, entitled Breaking the Impasse, online on Tuesday. Desjardins said the movement has about 200 supporters, 76 of whom have signed a petition to reopen the debate on sovereignty.

 

Lefauve

Look like there last reunion was quite sucessfull for the group 400 people were there.

It might be just what the sovreignist need for an electro-shock.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/08/21/mtl-quebec-sover...

warning: the comment of cbc reader are quite shocking!

Unionist

[url=http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-quebecoise/... founder of the NMQ calls for unity[/url]

Jocelyn Desjardins called on all "sovereignist formations" to unite - PQ, QS, the "Parti indépendantiste" (whoever they are).

But independence isn't any kind of basis of unity in Québec today, nor should it be. If we unite with the neoliberals leading the PQ, might as well do likewise with the ADQ and François Legault and why not, even Charest's Liberals. They're all "sovereignists" in some phony sense of the word.

The basis of unity must be the same one which shocked Canada on May 2 - opposition to Harper's politics (including their manifestation on the provincial scene). That means unity on the basis of the struggles and aims of workers, students, women, all who care about the environment, etc. - regardless of who wants a referendum when.

ETA: Whoops, I spoke too soon:

[url=http://www.quebecsolidaire.net/actualite_nationale/nouveau_mouvement_pou... thinks it's a good idea[/url]

Saints preserve us. [And there is no shortage of saints in Québec - just check out Google Maps.]

Lefauve

Unionist wrote:

[url=http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-quebecoise/... founder of the NMQ calls for unity[/url]

Jocelyn Desjardins called on all "sovereignist formations" to unite - PQ, QS, the "Parti indépendantiste" (whoever they are).

But independence isn't any kind of basis of unity in Québec today, nor should it be. If we unite with the neoliberals leading the PQ, might as well do likewise with the ADQ and François Legault and why not, even Charest's Liberals. They're all "sovereignists" in some phony sense of the word.

The basis of unity must be the same one which shocked Canada on May 2 - opposition to Harper's politics (including their manifestation on the provincial scene). That means unity on the basis of the struggles and aims of workers, students, women, all who care about the environment, etc. - regardless of who wants a referendum when.

ETA: Whoops, I spoke too soon:

[url=http://www.quebecsolidaire.net/actualite_nationale/nouveau_mouvement_pou... thinks it's a good idea[/url]

Saints preserve us. [And there is no shortage of saints in Québec - just check out Google Maps.]

so the result will be a coalition of sovreignist party you will triger all the procedure. because on the left wing alone there is not enought people.

wage zombie

Unionist wrote:

The basis of unity must be the same one which shocked Canada on May 2 - opposition to Harper's politics (including their manifestation on the provincial scene). That means unity on the basis of the struggles and aims of workers, students, women, all who care about the environment, etc. - regardless of who wants a referendum when.

Saints preserve us. [And there is no shortage of saints in Québec - just check out Google Maps.]

IMO Solidarity > Unity.  I'd love for "national unity" to be replaced by "national solidarity".  "Federal solidarity" doesn't quite have the same ring but could work if it's more inclusive.

6079_Smith_W

Lefauve wrote:

warning: the comment of cbc reader are quite shocking!

Indeed, but only if one takes online commentary as a serious reflection of public feeling, rather than the crankiest of the cranks. 

Lefauve

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Lefauve wrote:

warning: the comment of cbc reader are quite shocking!

Indeed, but only if one takes online commentary as a serious reflection of public feeling, rather than the crankiest of the cranks. 

Don't worry i'm fully aware that quebec's article attract angryphone like an magnet.

6079_Smith_W

Angryphone.... I love that. Thank you. It is a bright spot in an otherwise terrible day.

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Lefauve wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Lefauve wrote:

warning: the comment of cbc reader are quite shocking!

Indeed, but only if one takes online commentary as a serious reflection of public feeling, rather than the crankiest of the cranks. 

Don't worry i'm fully aware that quebec's article attract angryphone like an magnet.

Angryphobe is the flip side of the nasty comments made on the CBC.  Lets all insult each other for fun and games and see how that works out. IMO those who are promoting Quebec independence would really like the debate to descend into an us against them school yard taunting session. 

Cry

6079_Smith_W

Northern Shoveler wrote:

Angryphobe is the flip side of the nasty comments made on the CBC.  Lets all insult each other for fun and games and see how that works out. IMO those who are promoting Quebec independence would really like the debate to descend into an us against them school yard taunting session. 

Cry

I think those who want to forward their cause by sowing division would like to see debabate descent into insults. And I am sure you are right to a point.

I may not agree with Quebec sovereignty, but I am sure there are plenty who hold that view who don't favour the politics of petty division.

Though frankly, I am more shocked to see that tactic used by those who want to promote federalism - and that is pretty much the Harperite official line these days. I don't think they realize how much their attacks are an insult on Quebec, people's right to choose whom they want to represent them, and even an attack on federalism itself - by implying that elected sovereigntists have no place in a federalist system.

 

 

 

Lefauve

@northern-shoveler

Sorry if i shocked you!

What i refer as angryphone is people who react negatively to everything, in general those people won't try to give proper explanation. There speech is filled with hate, bigotery and exnophobia. But to my definition is not anglophone specific, some francophone can also be define as angryphone.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Lefauve wrote:
@northern-shoveler Sorry if i shocked you! What i refer as angryphone is people who react negatively to everything, in general those people won't try to give proper explanation. There speech is filled with hate, bigotery and exnophobia. But to my definition is not anglophone specific, some francophone can also be define as angryphone.

Thanks for that clarification.  I just call them right wing assholes.  

Laughing

Aristotleded24

I really get the sense that regardless of where people in Quebec fall on the sovereignty-federalism spectrum, that it is clearly in decline as a major issue. Starting in 2003, whenever the PQ raised the issue their support fell off sharply. Pauline Marois brought the party back to opposition status last time by focusing more on issues, and based on her social capital as the driving force behind Quebec's childcare system. That says a great deal, considering how unpopular Charest is. If public support was anywhere near that these groups claim it would be, then the PQ would be crushing Charest in the polls.

Quebec Solidaire, on the other hand, has focused more on basic day-to-day issues, and that explains why their star is rising, although the sovereignty question is something it will have to deal with, especially since many groups to which the left would speak for (particularly immigrants) lean more to the federalist end of the spectrum. I hope QS could pull it off.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Living and moving around in these Lower North Shore of Quebec communities (since 1995), I never - ever - hear sovereignty raised as an issue.

 

 

ETA: oops! I forgot - there is one very influential resident of the LNS who is very pro-sovereignist Quebec, and has raised the issue with me at least once in the sixteen years I've known him.

knownothing knownothing's picture
Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Why post hate talk from an right wing asshole?  Like anyone in the Quebec sovereignty movement is going to pay attention to this jerk.

Lefauve

 

I never read Peladeau news paper, it slipping more and more toward right wing  propaganda.