Is the PQ misguided or desperate enough to name PKP leader?

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lagatta

Here is a heartfelt response to Legault's crap (could apply to PKP's version as well)

José Franco's family arrived here when he was 10. His dad never learned French, because he immediately went to work in a factory (probably with compatriots) and he was illiterate in Portuguese. His mum did learn French, but she was also illiterate in her mother tongue, so may not have passed Legault's test. (These people probably also spoke a regional dialect, not the Portuguese used in official documents or the media).

http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/27a55a35-7f7d-480f-80cc-5072a0dce73d%257C_0

Now the children are all educated and gainfully employed, and the grandkids are as QuébécoisE as any other kid.

Mr Franco's letter also touches on a point I didn't make, as I didn't want to write a thesis on a chat board. It is very important for people to be literate in their own language to properly learn another. There are literacy classes in Spanish and in Creole here for that reason. And in a few lines, he conveys the degree of exhaustion in the lives of unskilled workers arriving in a different culture and language (even though, in this case the parents spoke another Latin language).

DaveW

Ken Burch wrote:

So, why is the PQ waiting until May of this year to hold its leadership convention?  It's weird over a year will have gone by between the last Quebec election(and Pauline Marois' election-night resignation as leader)without a new permanent leader being selected, especially since it it's been clear for months now that PKP has a lock on getting the job.  Who in the party would have anything to gain from keeping the leadership essentially open for that length of time?

It is entirely self-destructive;

 the more the general public sees of PKP, the more they see he is truly unqualified and dangerous, and PQ numbers decline accordingly

all for the good, I'd say Tongue out

lagatta

Well, organizations often do wind up in a march to folly. But it is "for the good" if that means an increase in the QS vote, not if it only strengthens the CAQ, which is more like the old Union nationale.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

PKP makes Drainville seem like a god.

DaveW

PKP:

the man who inherited an $8 billion company and made it a $4 billion one,

then

took a party polling just over 20 per cent, and took it to 10 ?? Surprised

 

Debater

Bernard Drainville se retirera de la course à la direction du Parti québécois

L’ex-ministre se ralliera au favori Pierre Karl Péladeau

22 avril 2015

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/438023/bernard-drainville-se-re...

Unionist

Gee, what a shock. Drainville and Péladeau. Never saw shit attract shit before. Gotta note down the date and time!

 

lagatta

Oh, hardly the first time.

And there will still be so-called "left péquistes" who will justify a vote for them, on a more and more contorted basis...

DaveW

incredible the contortions some people are going to make to vote PQ again... I know a few

question of the day, from the PQ media heartland:

 is Drainville (just) an opportunist for joining PKP:

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2015/04/22/lopportuniste

or

a sovereignist seeing the light and veering right?

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2015/04/22/bernard-drainville-se-retire-quelles-consequences

 Drainville avait misé sur un programme à trois volets. D’abord, un grand réalisme dans la poursuite de la souveraineté. Ensuite, une valorisation de l’aspect identitaire de l’indépendance. Enfin, une défense ferme et modérée du programme social-démocrate et écologique du PQ. Évidemment, en se ralliant à PKP, il se rallie à un autre programme que le sien sans l’abandonner. Il deviendra aussi, à sa manière, le gardien de certains points de programme.

 

 

 

 

swallow

With Peladeau as leader, the PQ would fall to 30% against 33% for the Counillard Liberals, according to CROP. Yet they line up to anoint the chosen one nevertheless. (CAQ 22% QS 12%) http://www.tooclosetocall.ca/2015/04/leffet-pkp-en-forte-baisse-dapres.h...

Debater

But those wouldn't be bad numbers for the PQ compared to where they have been lately.  That would put them closer than they finished with Marois, so who knows.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I think the PKP love affair is great.

As leader he'd shuffle the entire centre-left to QS. Would be nice to see QS get a good 20%.It's possible but the pessimist in me says I'm dreaming.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

PKP is going to clown Quebec, clown Quebecers, and clown the PQ. His antics will be hilarious!

CAQ and QS supporters should be raising glasses of champage! Taxed by the Liberals.

DaveW

so now 101 Quebec artists endorse the cultivated PKP because ... he financed their thing, whatever that was

....sheesh:

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/arts_et_spectacles/2015/04/29/001-p...

Cent un artistes signent ce matin une lettre dans le journal Le Devoir pour exprimer leur appui à Pierre Karl Péladeau.

On retrouve, entre autres, Denise Filiatrault, Denys Arcand, Éric Lapointe, Françoise Faucher et Xavier Dolan.

Les signataires disent pouvoir témoigner du profond amour de Pierre Karl Péladeau pour la culture québécoise. Il est décrit comme un mécène et un grand cinéphile.

La lettre énumère les nombreuses contributions financières de Pierre Karl Péladeau aux mondes du théâtre, de la musique et de la danse ainsi qu'aux musées.

Il s'agit d'un appui de taille du milieu culturel à un peu plus de deux semaines du premier vote pour déterminer le prochain chef du parti québécois.

lagatta

It is sickening. Remember that he "likes" cultural workers as long as we are slaves. He is a vicious opponent of our self-organization.

swallow

101 Quebec artists sign letter stating "our endorsement is for sale and PKP was the highest bidder" Good for them, I suppose. 

Debater

Xavier Dolan signed this?  Surprising.  Supporting not just the PQ but a right-wing PQ leader who is viewed as hostile to the arts community could damage Dolan's reputation.  Since Dolan is pursuing an international film career, it could have negative results.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

This seems pretty tongue-in-cheek to me. Our starving artists are classically unsupported by our society, despite the important work they do showing us to ourselves.

Even though he is an arts patron, Peledeau has shown he is not capable of investing money into new and productive enterprises. He is running down the value of the empire his father built up, and he does not seem to be able to make decisions which would make his family's capital grow.

Peledeau cannot claim his business skills will benefit Quebec if he has not been a responsible steward of his own capital.

Nonetheless I am glad to see artists getting some money, no matter what the source.

swallow

Was the article edited since you posted, DaveW, or did you omit parts of it? It now says that the artists' letter is not intended to be poltiical support for PKP, but instead a recognition of his support for Quebec culture (also that Julie Snyder, perhaps not 100% objective on the matter, wrote it). 

Amusing that there are 101 signatories, a PQ magic number. Also amusing that PKP is quoted saying he is refusing to speak to the CBC because he wants to talk to people directly, without a media filter. That's a George Bush line, isn't it? 

lagatta

And George Bush wasn't a media mogul.

I think several artists who support independence refused to sign it, for obvious reasons. There is an ugly side to this petition, as we know Péladeau is a control freak and can destroy the career of artists who oppose his thirst for power.

DaveW

swallow: in the context of a leadership race, this is a pretty gushy "endorsement", even if not precisely an endorsement of him over his current opponents:

Cent un artistes signent ce matin une lettre dans le journal Le Devoir pour exprimer leur appui à Pierre Karl Péladeau.

and

The Snyder issue is eminently political, not individual -- as the late PQ Govt inserted a clause allowing her to get a dubious subsidy, despite her clear links to an industry heavyweight.

swallow

Well, yes, agreed. I just noticed that the second sentence was omiitted from your quote, and wondered whether you omitted it, or the newspaper added it after you first linked. 

Cent un artistes signaient mercredi matin une lettre dans le journal Le Devoir pour exprimer leur appui à Pierre Karl Péladeau. Des signataires contactés par Radio-Canada affirment toutefois que la lettre n'est pas un appui politique, mais plutôt une reconnaissance de son apport à la culture.

Weasel words, of course. Anyway, I've lost all respect for all the artists who signed the letter. Good for those who decliend to sign.

DaveW

also:

Lysiane Gagnon column from Globe explores full vacuity of these endorsements from financially dependent artistes...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/a-story-told-in-101-signatur...

Imagine you are a dancer struggling to make ends meet, or a filmmaker in constant search of subsidies and sponsors, or a pop singer who’s dying to appear on Quebecor-owned TVA, or on one of the variety shows produced by Julie Snyder, the life partner of Quebecor’s supremo, Pierre Karl Péladeau, who’s now running for the leadership of the Parti Québécois. (The couple have two kids and are planning a celebrity wedding this summer.) Now imagine you get a call from a Péladeau campaign organizer, asking you to sign a collective letter extolling the virtues of Ms. Snyder’s fiancé as a man of culture, a friend of the arts and a generous sponsor of artistic events. What choice do you have? You can’t even use the pretext that you don’t like the way the letter is written since the author is Ms. Snyder.

So it’s not exactly a surprise that enough volunteers were found to collect 101 signatures (a symbolic number that identifies the PQ’s 1977 language law). The surprise is why it was published at all. Did Mr. Péladeau need extra help to win his party’s leadership? He’s by far the front-runner and will be crowned on May 15 unless the sky falls on the St. Lawrence Valley.

lagatta

Well, yes. However, agreeing with Gagnon is a bit like agreeing with Wente; even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

NorthReport
bekayne

New leader of the Parti Quebecor

lagatta

Hardly a surprise, but what makes me want to vomit is hearing former leftists and trade unionists such as Pierre Paquette and Gilles Duceppe praising the scab-herding slime.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

No surprise.

But if this benefits QS I'm fine with it.

lagatta

It will in some senses, but a general rightward move by the three leading political parties is not a good thing. Obviously this is the recognition that the PQ that was a leader in everything from labour to LGBT rights to agricultural lands protection and electoral reform is a very distant memory. Radio-Canada ironically played the old anthem "Un nouveau jour va se lever", with its utopian emancipatory hopes, against many forms of oppression and exploitation (and also an anthem of the 1972 General Strike)...

http://www.cyberus.ca/~rg/ch_m003.htm

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/350825/une-chanson-dans-la-tete

UN NOUVEAU JOUR VA SE LEVER
paroles et musique: Jacques Michel

Viens
Un nouveau jour va se lever
Et son soleil
Brillera pour la majorité qui s'éveille
Comme un enfant
Devenu grand
Avec le temps

Viens
Un nouveau jour va se lever
Et son regard
Se moquera de l'autorité de César
Car les enfants
Défient les grands
Quand vient le temps

Le temps de l'esclavage
Le temps du long dressage
Le temps de subir est passé
C'est assez
Le temps des sacrifices
Se vend à bénéfice
Le temps de prendre est arrivé

Viens
Un nouveau jour va se lever
Et son soleil
Brillera pour la majorité qui s'éveille
Comme un enfant
Devenu grand
Avec le temps

Viens
Un nouveau jour va se lever
Et son regard
Se moquera de l'autorité de César
Car les enfants
Défient les grands
Quand vient le temps

Le temps des révérences
Le temps du long silence
Le temps de se taire est passé
C'est assez
Le temps des muselières
Se meurt dans la fourrière
Le temps de mordre est arrivé

Viens
Un nouveau jour va se lever
Et son soleil
Brillera pour la majorité qui s'éveille
Comme un enfant
Devenu grand
Avec le temps

Viens
Un nouveau jour va se lever
Et son regard
Se moquera de l'autorité de César
Car les enfants
Défient les grands
Quand vient le temps

Unionist

Desperation of a movement which has lost its way. But besides his personal history, I don't see any significant ideological "left-right" departure here. That already happened in the 90s with Lucien Bouchard.

 

lagatta

True, Unionist, but this marks the PQ clearly as a party that is an enemy of the working class - like the other two major parties.

DaveW

but this all adds a furtive bypasser-looking-at-car-crash element to QC politics,

 as I am sure Peladeau's mild recent PR improvement cannot last, and he will do something truly foolish....soon

robbie_dee

Help me out here... is this roughly the equivalent of the federal NDP electing Conrad Black as leader? After all, he's fairly progressive on criminal justice policy these days.

Unionist

robbie_dee wrote:

Help me out here... is this roughly the equivalent of the federal NDP electing Conrad Black as leader? After all, he's fairly progressive on criminal justice policy these days.

A closer analogy would be if the federal NDP elected, say, someone like Tom Mulcair. He was fairly progressive on environmental matters at the time, though he did serve as cabinet minister in a very reactionary government that attacked students, workers, health care, etc. - and he had his own personal issues, on fronts such as ultra-Zionism.

So, who knows what the future holds. PKP might surprise as just as much as Tom has.

 

robbie_dee

What media conglomerates did/does Tom Mulcair own?

Unionist

robbie_dee wrote:

What media conglomerates did/does Tom Mulcair own?

Sorry, I focused more on the irony of electing leaders based on their inappropriate political beliefs and deeds. I honestly don't care that much whether a political representative is rich, poor, a media mogul, a plumber... I can find you very progressive folks and hardcore fascist scum in any of these groups.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Actually the thing I would worry about the most is his being an oligarch and media mogul. At least if elected he won't be a stooge of some of the most anti-union ccorporations in your province, he will be the past owner with a "blind" trust. What could be more transparent than that?  I am sure he is an honourable chap and would never take advantage of his media empire to overpower the democratic process just like I am sure that as a politician he will not be in favour of the anti-union policies he perfected as a CEO of the family business.

Imagine a new country controlled from its outset by a homegrown oligarchy. It would immediately be eligible for NATO status with that kind of pedigree.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Unionist wrote:

robbie_dee wrote:
What media conglomerates did/does Tom Mulcair own?

Sorry, I focused more on the irony of electing leaders based on their inappropriate political beliefs and deeds. I honestly don't care that much whether a political representative is rich, poor, a media mogul, a plumber... I can find you very progressive folks and hardcore fascist scum in any of these groups.

The real irony is that René Levequei was a union leader at Quebecor Media, and PKP is a owner/union buster at Quebecor. The PQ has now chosen as their leader the most literal enemy of Leveque's life and work.

robbie_dee

Ideology matters of course but I think honest-to-goodness membership in the capitalist class does, too. In fairness I would acknowledge you could draw an analogy between Lucien Bouchard and Tom Mulcair as both first belonged to governments of a rather different ideological stripe than where they ultimately ended up and the reasons for their ideological travels appeared in both cases to be principally due to one issue. But they are both still basically lawyer/manager types.

PKP is different because he is an owner, like Conrad Black or for that matter Pierre Trudeau or Franklin Roosevelt. If PKP follows the Roosevelt example and becomes a traitor to his class I would applaud him, but it would be quite a surprise based on his past record. Indeed I fear he aspires to follow a different example, i.e. Silvio Berlusconi.

DaveW

robbie_dee wrote:

Help me out here... is this roughly the equivalent of the federal NDP electing Conrad Black as leader? After all, he's fairly progressive on criminal justice policy these days.

yes and no,

same calibre of capitalist and type of press portfolio, also same arrogance and self-centredness, but PKP younger and more attuned to popular mass culture through his holdings;

feels more like a midlife crisis, distancing himself from his father's creation to follow his wife on a new adventure that will prove him a leader

actually, several parallels closer to Iggy than Black

Bärlüer

Left Turn wrote:

Unionist wrote:

robbie_dee wrote:
What media conglomerates did/does Tom Mulcair own?

Sorry, I focused more on the irony of electing leaders based on their inappropriate political beliefs and deeds. I honestly don't care that much whether a political representative is rich, poor, a media mogul, a plumber... I can find you very progressive folks and hardcore fascist scum in any of these groups.

The real irony is that René Levequei was a union leader at Quebecor Media, and PKP is a owner/union buster at Quebecor. The PQ has now chosen as their leader the most literal enemy of Leveque's life and work.

Was René Lévesque a union leader at the Journal...? I wasn't ware of it if that's the case. I only know he was involved in the Radio-Canada (CBC) directors strike in the late 1950s. (Just to be clear: Quebecor Media only formally began to exist in 2000, when Quebecor acquired Vidéotron and TVA.)

About René Lévesque and unionism: René Lévesque was indeed sincerely committed to the basic tenets of unionism. There is a terrific video that documents a lecture he gave in 1965 in which he gives an introduction to unionism. His rhethorical gifts and passion are on full display.

... but he was also the head of a government that adopted, in 1982 and 1983, incredibly drastic back-to-work and wage-fixing legislation (one of the laws slashed public sector salaries by 20% for three months), earning him among union members the nickname "the butcher of New Carlisle".

DaveW

hahahaha ...

http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/politique/201505/19/01-48708...

(Québec) Québec solidaire (QS) a souhaité à sa manière la bienvenue à Pierre Karl Péladeau comme chef du Parti québécois, en tentant de déposer une motion pour que l'Assemblée nationale modernise la législation antibriseurs de grève.

La résolution a été présentée par QS, sans aucun débat en chambre. Elle visait à rappeler que Québecor, sous la gouverne de M. Péladeau, alors pdg de l'entreprise, a imposé plusieurs lock-out, dont au Journal de Québec et au Journal de Montréal.

Le recours aux nouvelles technologies avait permis de publier ces quotidiens sans que les remplaçants des journalistes en conflit de travail ne franchissent physiquement les piquets de grève. QS voulait que le gouvernement modifie la loi pour revoir les notions «d'établissement» et «d'employeur» afin «d'empêcher de contourner les dispositions d'un Code du travail devenu obsolète».

 

 

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