Quebec future in Harper Majority

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Lefauve
Quebec future in Harper Majority

The conservative who are used to be know as the bigest Quebec Basher are now in power without quebec vote. For more that 20 year quebec wa not part of canada. What is the best for Quebec and Canada right now?

 

WyldRage

What is best for Québec is to have its own country, and finally control over its own destiny.

As for Canada, the cure will be terrible. We are back in '93, where the division of the left-wing vote has given the right-wing a larger victory than they deserved. Québec once more (nearly) walks alone: we just changed from light blue to orange. Either there will one day be PR, or the NDP, liberals and greens will have to merge.

Either Canada will progress, or revert back to the two party system.

6079_Smith_W

While I don't agree with you Wyldrage, I concede that the decision is entirely yours and not mine. 

But I did think it was a shocking display of blindness for all the commentators last night to declare that sovereignty is dead. Seeing as the Harperites were able to lose seats in Quebec and still form a majority makes an even starker wall of division, and if anyting I think this could be a new rebirth for sovereignty - or not.

I suppose the crucial task for Jack Layton  - to see if he understands that he is governing a completely different party than he was before election night.

At this point, it could all still go in many directions. 

knownothing knownothing's picture

I hope Quebec is patient.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

I suppose the crucial task for Jack Layton  - to see if he understands that he is governing a completely different party than he was before election night.

Lets see before the election his caucus had 1 out of 37 MP's from Quebec.  Now he will walk into a room with 60 new faces from Quebec.  I suspect it will not be something he will miss. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

The sovereignty movement will be woken up.

Interest in sovereignty will be as strong as it was in the late 1970's.

Quebec and Canada no longer have anything in common.

6079_Smith_W

Of course, NS.

To make my point perhaps a bit more strongly, the question is what he will do with it, what his caucus will do with it, and ultimately what the people of Quebec will do with it. 

What we saw last night was a radical shift, a lot of it to do with Jack Layton personally rather than the party as a whole. It remains to be seen what will come of it, and if it has staying power.

And with the Bloc decisively rejected, for now, it is an open question where that energy - not just for sovereignlty, but for Quebec's representation as a specific entiry within Canada - will go.

It is a heavy mantle to receive, and it remains to be seen if Layton can balance that alongside the social democratic interests of the NDP.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

alan smithee wrote:

The sovereignty movement will be woken up.

Interest in sovereignty will be as strong as it was in the late 1970's.

Quebec and Canada no longer have anything in common.

I think you are right that Harper has the ability to reignite a separatist firestorm.

However your comment that various parts of the country no longer have anything in common highlights the disservice our FPTP system does to our democracy.  Quebec indeed voted over 42% for the NDP. In Atlantic Canada, Sask., and BC the NDP got about 32% of the vote.  I don't see that as having nothing in common.  

However in Quebec our stupid system gave the NDP 61 of 75 seats so it looks like the overwhelming majority of Quebecers rode the orange wave. While in fact the orange wave was only a third larger in Quebec.

In Saskatchewan the NDP polled about the same as in BC and they got 0 of 13 seats.  In BC they got 12 of 36.  So it looks like no one in Sask. shares the same values as the people who voted for the NDP in Quebec because they didn't win any seats. They do however share many political ideals and a common left of centre vision for the country. 

Now if you equate Ontario with Canada, as too often happens, then in fact the difference in the vote between 42% and 26% is far more substantial than in other parts of the country.  How you view the numbers IMO is determined by which lens you choose to look through. 

Freedom 55

alan smithee wrote:

Quebec and Canada no longer have anything in common.

 

Really? Just because of these election results? Is this really that different from the past 18 years when Québecers sent an average of 48 MPs to Ottawa from a party that the ROC didn't even have the option of voting for?

Don't get me wrong...  Québecers can vote however they want in elections and referenda, and it's not my place to tell them how to vote. But I have to say; it's a bit rich, being chastised for not electing more NDP MPs by people from a province that had - until yesterday - only elected two NDP MPs in their entire history.

6079_Smith_W

And just this morning Sask Premier Brad Wall referred to the NDP as a "Quebec" party. 

Do these so-called federalists realize how anti-federalist they are behaving? I think the reaction in Quebec is not even our main concern.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Freedom 55 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Quebec and Canada no longer have anything in common.

 

Really? Just because of these election results? Is this really that different from the past 18 years when Québecers sent an average of 48 MPs to Ottawa from a party that the ROC didn't even have the option of voting for?

Don't get me wrong...  Québecers can vote however they want in elections and referenda, and it's not my place to tell them how to vote. But I have to say; it's a bit rich, being chastised for not electing more NDP MPs by people from a province that had - until yesterday - only elected two NDP MPs in their entire history.

 

Yes...it really is.

For the first time since 1988,Quebec voted unanimously federalist.

This election could have been the start of a united Canada.

Instead,Quebec and the ROC remain 2 solitudes.

Canada embraced a government that is committed in tearing it apart and Quebec embraced a party that wanted to defend it.

It's like the tables have been turned where Quebec said yes to Canada and the ROC said NO.

If anything is 'rich',it's those who voted for Harper and wrap themselves in the maple leaf.

Personally,I don't want any part of this new Canada.

Those who voted for it can have it...and shove it.

6079_Smith_W

@alan

Sorry. You are wrong. I voted NDP, and I am thankful for the overwhelming turnout in Quebec. 

But if you claim that the "ROC" overwhelmingly said no, you are ignoring a significant percentage of the population

You want to cut your losses and run, fine.  it does not speak well to the idea of solidarity.

And if you don't see that, well I think you expressed the inapproriate sentiment in your last sentence.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Well...I tore up my Canada membership card last night.

As of today and into the next 5 years,I'm going to concentrate on the possibility of another referendum...

Next provincial election is in 2013,2 years into this neo-con nightmare.

The winning conditions are at the tips of our fingers.

Time to bid adieu to Canada.

 

josh

Quebec's presence may be the one thing that restrains Harper and Co. from moving too far right.

Basement Dweller

I just did some quick research on the sole BQ survivor in Montreal, Maria Mourani. How long will it take to get her to cross the floor?

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

ROC only exists in the minds of deluded Quebec nationalists.  905 TO is not the rest of Canada. If you can't tell the difference between NF'LD, Toronto and Vancouver Island you are either being willfully blind and have very seldom left Quebec.

In 1988 the Quebec population voted to give us free trade and we have been paying for that decision for 20 years. The fact that Mulroney was a Quebecer seemed to be more important than the fact that he wanted to sell the country down the river.  So save me your moralistic bullshit.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Wow...I never left Quebec...LOL

Quebec didn't give us this Harper majority.

Spin it any which way that makes you feel better..Doesn't change the fact.

Many things can happen in the course of 5 years...I hope it brings a referendum and a massive yes vote.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Since you are laughing at one of the possibilities I will take it you are willfully blind and only see the world through a very narrow lens. If you have been to many parts of Canada and you can't see the difference then you are conflating culture with language. They are separate and conjoined not two words for the same thing.

6079_Smith_W

Gee, I wish I was in a position to act condescending and declare I want to have nothing more to do with those who voted for Harper. Unfortunately I am surrounded by them. 

And alan, while I have no qualms with you supporting another referendum, crying sour grapes over the election and  blaming the rest of canada for it is something I find personally insulting, especially since there are many of us who are working toward some of the same ends as you are.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I'm not trying to alienate those who didn't vote for Harper outside of Quebec.

But let's face it,the rest of the country,for the most part,is not progressive and this election proved it.

There was even an impromtu protest through the streets of Montreal last night against the Conservatives.

I think Quebec is a province with a conscience...I can't say that about Alberta,for example.

Pardon me if I'm pissed at the result.

The election just ended...I'm hoping that all of us throughout Canada that do not support this government will gel in solidarity.

I'm just not convinced that the Conservatives will fall out of favour in the ridings they won last night any time soon.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture
6079_Smith_W

alan smithee wrote:

I think Quebec is a province with a conscience...I can't say that about Alberta,for example.

Pardon me if I'm pissed at the result.

I'm pissed too. I just don't have the luxury of being territorial about it. And you are wrong in making such a generalization about the people of Alberta. 

As I said, if you want to work for sovereignty that is your business, but I would urge you to let the shock of this subside and realize that there are people throughout this country working for the same thing as you are, and that blaming others for this surprising outcome is not helpful.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Compare and contrast right wing assholes form various parts of the country.  Lets do Liberals.

 

 

 

6079_Smith_W

Or we could compare mayors. I think Alberta might be at a bit of an advantage there.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Jean Charest has an approval rating of 30%

The new right wing party doesn't have much of a snow ball's chance given the current political climate in Quebec.

The next provincial election will almost certainly see a PQ majority...And now that Duceppe is out of federal politics,Marois' future is not as certain as it was a couple weeks ago when she was given a 93% approval rating from the party.

If the NDP becomes more and more visible and active in Quebec (as it should),this may turn into VERY good news for Quebec Solidaire.

As it stands,a hard right agenda is a fringe agenda in La Belle Province.

Lucien Bouchard,who was wildly popular (and still is) had to resign because he's a big 'C' conservative and couldn't govern the province as he wanted to.

The QS actually HAS a seat in the National Assembly...This Tea Party movement is,as I said,a fringe movement as relevent as the Rhinos.

 

ETA : Just how popular is straight up right wing politics in Quebec?

Ask the ADQ.

Searosia

Ugh...generally offended that you'd present ROC as a united whole (it's own "solitude"), your lack of knowledge on the ROC outside of Quebec rivals my lack of knowledge of quebec ^^

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

alan smithee wrote:

Jean Charest has an approval rating of 30%

Campbell dropped to 9% before resigning.  

From my long distance viewpoint the PQ in its last term did not look much like a left wing government.  To me they seemed to be like the Manitoba NDP.  Large city Mayors are also an indication of a provinces politics.  I live in the socialist republic of Burnaby and I sure as hell would not want to move to the bible belt in Abbotsford.  Vancouver has the ultimate centrist as a Mayor.  

I see a lot of similarities. Libby Davies polled about 63% while Mulcair polled 57%.  Mind you a Con in Abbortsford polled 65% and Bernier polled 52% for the Cons in Quebec.

I don't disagree with some of what you say I was merely having a bit of fun with the "over" generalization.  

knownothing knownothing's picture

alan smithee wrote:

Wow...I never left Quebec...LOL

Quebec didn't give us this Harper majority.

Spin it any which way that makes you feel better..Doesn't change the fact.

Many things can happen in the course of 5 years...I hope it brings a referendum and a massive yes vote.

 

Just because Quebec voted NDP and the ROC didn't doesn't mean you should focus on seperating from canada. There are other factors at play. BC went NDP, so did parts of Ontario and downtown Toronto and they made gains in Atlantic. Also, provincial governments affect federal vote and these are affecting political moods as well. Next time the Liberals will be even more irrelevant and NDP will get majority.

 

Who wouldn't want this guy as your MP?

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Cannon+loses+newcomer+major+upset/47...

Aristotleded24

If people want to work for sovereignty that is their right to do so. I can certainly understand why Quebeckers are unhappy with these results. Having said that, much of the talk about the sovereignty movement coming back to life simply because Quebec voted differently than the rest of the country sounds a great deal like when Americans threatened to move to Canada en masse when Bush won his second term. Well, the right-wing won in Canada as well, and we don't know that the right-wing won't ever be successful in Quebec. I can also recall in the 1990s when the Liberals consistently won re-election and people in Western Canada felt very off-side with overall voting patterns.

The key thing that has changed is people felt previously that the NDP wasn't in contention, so didn't give them serious consideration. Now that the NDP has done well in Quebec, people in the rest of the country are looking at the NDP as a national contender, and this has the potential to win even more NDP seats throughout the rest of the country.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

This is why I never voted for the PQ.

When Levesque died,the party lost it's identity.

The last election,Charest won because he went up against a real dud..(Quebec's answer to Iggy)...Andre Boisclair.

When he was chosen the new leader of the PQ,I called it right away..I said he'd fail and he did--miserably.

I'm also not delusional..The PQ have not been a left wing party since the end of the 80's.

They're like the Liberals,they like to play both sides of the fence which is a proven losing formula.

Charest has been holding on to power by governing like a Liberal..Not to say that is a good thing,but he seems reluctant to take a straight up right wing agenda.

He straddles the centre and leans to the right.

A couple years ago,the PLQ let off a trial balloon,toying with the idea to make mandatory waiting periods for women wanting an abortion.

Clearly,it was an attempt to quash a woman's right to choose.

This was INCREDIBLY unpopular...So unpopular that within 72 hours,they did a complete about face and Charest had to face the cameras and declare that abortion is a right.

Again,a conservative agenda so unpopular that he did an immediate 180..I don't remember a quicker flip flop.

I have to make it very clear...I was NOT denying the FACT that there are millions of progressives across Canada--including Alberta.

But am I really that off the mark when I say there are MORE progressives in Quebec than in Alberta?

And of course different regions have different political allegiances.

Quebec's conservative bone is and always has been concentrated around the Quebec City region.

Thankfully,when it comes to who decides the government we get here,it's Montreal and the surrounding area.

And because of that,if the orange tide becomes even stronger in 2 years,Quebec Solidaire will be an official party in the National Assembly.

As it stands,the QS are the NDP with a pro-sovereignty stance.

ghost-of-nerkman

Aristotleded24 wrote:
The key thing that has changed is people felt previously that the NDP wasn't in contention, so didn't give them serious consideration. Now that the NDP has done well in Quebec, people in the rest of the country are looking at the NDP as a national contender, and this has the potential to win even more NDP seats throughout the rest of the country.

In fact, they already have.  There have been pickups in the Maritimes, in Ontario and in BC.  There will be more to come.

ghost-of-nerkman

alan smithee wrote:

This is why I never voted for the PQ.

When Levesque died,the party lost it's identity.

The last election,Charest won because he went up against a real dud..(Quebec's answer to Iggy)...Andre Boisclair.

When he was chosen the new leader of the PQ,I called it right away..I said he'd fail and he did--miserably.

I'm also not delusional..The PQ have not been a left wing party since the end of the 80's.

They're like the Liberals,they like to play both sides of the fence which is a proven losing formula.

Charest has been holding on to power by governing like a Liberal..Not to say that is a good thing,but he seems reluctant to take a straight up right wing agenda.

He's reluctant because the unions, social advocacy groups and the general population have put him to task on anything and everything he's tried.

Quote:
I have to make it very clear...I was NOT denying the FACT that there are millions of progressives across Canada--including Alberta.

Alan, save for Manitoba, Saskatchwan and Alberta -- (the only province with any sizable population), the conservatives did not capture the popular vote.  Harper got his Majority by the vote-splitting that took place in the GTA and the GVRD.  Nothing more. 18 of those pick-ups could have been easily avoided had there not been such a split down the middle.  There are at least six ridings in Ontario alone that the Tories took with less than a thousand votes, some of them, with barely 100 votes.  Three of the six Tory holds in Québec won with a much smaller lead this time around.  

Harper knows this.  Of course, he'll act out his ultra-right wing agenda but that will have dire consequences, because he's got three factions with this new Majority, the Reformers out west, the former PC folks in Ontario, and the new Canadian vote, which can be just as fickle as any Quebec voter.  All three have very divergent agendas that do not always gel together, and it will eventually cause rifts in the party, with some of the more ambitious ones (like Tony Clement) will stake out their party leader aspirations.

If you're going to blame anything, blame our collective First-past-the-post system, which is a system, BTW, neither one of the three dominant parties at the Québec National Assembly are quick to rid themselves of.

Quote:
But am I really that off the mark when I say there are MORE progressives in Quebec than in Alberta?

There are more progressives in Ontario than in Québec (well, at least those of eligible voters who voted).  There are more progressives than conservatives in Ontario, but so what?  Ontario is just one of ten provinces and three territories.  There is a lot of common ground.  Progressives are a huge family in Canada.  Plus, at least 35% of eligible voters didn't participate in this election, so to quantify which province is more progressive than the other is beside the point.

Quote:
As it stands,the QS are the NDP with a pro-sovereignty stance.

I don't know if it's so much pro-sovereignty, than being pro-Québec nationalist (which isn't necessarily synonymous).  Québec Solidaire has always struck me as a party who doesn't believe in rattling sabres like the PQ.  Sovereignty isn't so much a goal, rather than a tool they are open to use if possible to achieve their social democratic goals.  Which is something I respect, even though I am a federalist.  I believe that is the NDP's position too.  You're right to think they would work together.  But I think it's a bit presumtuous to assume that means a referendum on sovereignty in the forseeable future (or the need for one ever).

You might never think this, but I see Québéc re-enfranchising themselves into the shape of what is to come.  60.38% of Canadians did not vote for the Conservatives.  Québec has an incredible opportunity through the NDP to not only re-assert their vision of Québec, but of the entire progressive movement in all of Canada.  Even to redefine what Canadian federalism means.

Now is not the time to retreat and sulk into a corner.  There's a lot of work to be done.  Harper can't keep the muzzle on the Weasel (Kenney) and the Screaming Bear (Baird) forever.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Thanks Ghost for putting everything in perspective.

I guess my point is that social conservatism does not fly in Quebec.

As much as I believe fiscal conservatism is every bit as ideological as SoCon,a fiscally conservative agenda is the only conservative value that could be sold in Quebec.

I've never been more proud to be a Quebecker as I am now..We said Non Merci to Harper.

Now it's up to the NDP to keep themselves the federal party representing Quebec..I hope Layton and his team are smart enough to know that it is imperative to be very visible and very active here.

If the NDP can surf the wave they are riding here through to the next election,that will be excellent news for the Quebec Solidaire,Quebec as a whole and for Canada.

It wasn't fair for me to blame Canada.

There's alot of Canadians out there who said No,Thank You to Harper as well.

We're on the same team...We share the same goals.

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

alan smithee wrote:

There's alot of Canadians out there who said No,Thank You to Harper as well.

We're on the same team...We share the same goals.

Kiss

Aristotleded24

ghost-of-nerkman wrote:
Alan, save for Manitoba, Saskatchwan and Alberta -- (the only province with any sizable population), the conservatives did not capture the popular vote.

Even in these provinces, it's not necessarily any great love of Harper. In Manitoba people are tired of the NDP after 12 years as happens with all governments, and in Saskatchewan the NDP has a leader who reminds the province why they threw out the NDP in 2007. In Alberta, it's a case that only the right-wingers vote and everyone else doesn't (Nenshi's election in Calgary notwithstanding). I think popular opinion could easily turn against the Conservatives in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, particularly if right-wing provincial governments start doing things that are very unpopular. I have a hunch that if the NDP plays its cards right that it can send most Manotiba Conservatives packing next go around.

Vansterdam Kid

I think the Conservatives did a good job of avoiding social conservatism and quashing it when the crazies spoke up which is why they were able to hold their vote in BC and make serious gains in Ontario. In fact I think the whole Trost thing was a calculated triangulation move designed to show the social conservatives that they have a voice and delude social liberals into thinking Harper is one of them, which is why the Conservatives were able to come up the middle and win a lot of suburban and urban ridings they wouldn't have won in English Canada otherwise. If they let the crazies out of the bag then the 'blue' liberals who supported them in middle/upper-middle class ridings in suburban Vancouver and Toronto and smaller mid-sized cities would abandon them.

I think its undeniable that there's more social conservatism in English Canada than in Quebec, because there is no base of evangelical Christians in Quebec and ultra montane Catholicism went out of style in the 60s and 70s, but even in English Canada such thinking is a small minority and Harper will need to tred lightly. Especially since people are becoming more irrelegious. I think I remember reading that in BC agnostics/atheists make up a plurality of the population (the only province including Quebec where this is true), which doesn't even include all of the lapsed others. He has a coalition of conservatives and blue liberals, he needs to remember that and keep the bible thumpers in the closet, otherwise it will fall apart.

Searosia

For what it's worth...most calgary conservatives are fiscal conservatives, not nessecarily social cons (social cons are a bit more common in rurals and tend to be far louder than their fiscal counter parts).  Hard-line social conservatism tends to fail here too  (Mind you, the WRA may change that...or atleast take that section out of the PC's)...there's a good number of red tories here.

Sven Sven's picture

That's an interesting analysis, VanKid (in post #35).

In the US, there is a very significant percentage of people "in the middle" who are repelled by social conservativism but are very attracted to fiscal conservativism.  If the Republicans can, as you say, "keep the bible thumpers in the closet" like they did in the 2010 mid-term elections, then they may very well establish a lasting governing majority. It's interesting to me that a similar dynamic may be at play in Canada.

Vansterdam Kid

I think the difference in the US is that evangelicals make up something like 30% of the population whereas in Canada they're 10%. So obviously the Conservatives have a much smaller natural base. Furthermore, wearing ones religion on ones sleeve in Canada is a strict no no - the whole "God Bless Canada" thing Harper occasionally trotted out was dropped for the most part. Also, in the US the Republicans have a demographic disadvantage, in so far as they're despised by fast growing minority populations, which the Conservatives don't have in Canada. Which, if the Republicans were craftier like our Cons, they would've reached out to them since many of them could be attracted to their message. Frankly, I think the only reason the Republicans made gains in 2010 was due to the economy and Democratic incompetence (in handling the issue by acquiescing to a Republican minority that clearly wanted to keep the economy weak for their electoral benefit). A poor economy is a universal handicap to incumbent governments. In any case it's impossible with the pseudo white-nationalist base of the Republican Party for them to adopt a similar minority courting strategy that the Cons, despite how cynical they were with their 'ethnic dress' and 'very ethnic riding' secret strategy papers.

This is why it will be interesting to see whether or not the Con coalition will remain stable irregardless of outside factors like the economy or scandals. It's more stable than the previous majority Conservative coalition based on Quebec nationalists and western regionalists, but it still has a lot of inherent contradictions in addition to the social liberal/conservative split, such as urban/suburban/rural, West/Ontario/Maritime splits, amongst others, that could be exploited. People keep fretting that the NDP is hobbled by being too Quebec heavy. I think they're worrying too much, many contradictory divisions are being papered over in the Con coalition. It won't be easy to defeat them but they're not unbeatable.

Unionist

alan smithee wrote:

The new right wing party doesn't have much of a snow ball's chance given the current political climate in Quebec.

The next provincial election will almost certainly see a PQ majority... [...]

As it stands,a hard right agenda is a fringe agenda in La Belle Province.

But Pauline Marois's conclusion is that she should seek alliances on the right:

[url=http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-quebecoise/... reaches out to Legault[/url]

I didn't notice her reaching out to Québec solidaire, or the trade unions, or the student organizations...

Is she stupid? Does she understand nothing about what happened last Monday? Or is she, like others, terrified that the workers, farmers, youth, and poor of Québec may be more committed to fighting against Harper (obviously her class ally) than for whatever phony kind of sovereignty the PQ has on offer these days?

I have long been convinced that this party cannot be salvaged. The sooner it disappears from the Québec scene, the better. Let's see if QS can show some healthier political instincts than this.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Marois IS stupid.

And regardless of her 93% approval by her party last month,before the next election I expect the PQ to reach out to Gilles Duceppe.

He's the man who will not only give the PQ a majority in 2013 but the best man to sell the sovereignty option.

Marois can't and isn't.

So let her reach out to Legault.

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I would love to have Duceppe as head of the PQ, but I doubt it will happen now. I think he'll probably retire.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

alan smithee wrote:

I expect the PQ to reach out to Gilles Duceppe.

He's the man who will not only give the PQ a majority in 2013 but the best man to sell the sovereignty option.

Will Quebec voters really want a 66 year old saviour in 2013?  

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Next to Marois?

Absolutely.

Unionist

Northern Shoveler wrote:

Will Quebec voters really want a 66 year old saviour in 2013?  

Duceppe is far younger than the Legaults and Boisclairs and Dumonts of this world. As for Marois, well.

 

KenS

There is a very strong and compelling 'informal rule' of politics that the PQ could not improve its fortunes by replacing Marois and her weak appeal with Duceppe.

I would think that Quebecois still have a great fondness for and trust of Duceppe. But he is traumatically damaged goods. And not simply or even primarily because he lost and lost so badly. That was just the coup de grace. So switching to Duceppe would just fan the flames, regardless of the fact he is better liked and regarded than Marois.

Obviously, Quebec civil society has a different dynamic with its politicians, but I seriously doubt it is different enough for Duceppe as PQ leader to not bump up very hard against that 'informal rule'. Duceppe knows this, and will I think not seriously entertain positioning himself for 'un-retiring' from anything except elder statesman role.

Not to mention that it was obvious even before the election that he is tired. And then acted like a cranky old man, forced to turn to the entertaining other old man. And where is the energy alan in the would-be drafters of Duceppe?

It remians to be seen whether the remnants of the Bloc are a spent political force. But it looks to me like there is little doubt Duceppe is.

Unionist

Andrea Levy, of the Canadian Dimension editorial board, says pretty well what I and many of my friends have been saying:

[url=http://canadiandimension.com/articles/3944/]What the election outcome means for Québec[/url]

It's an excerpt from this [url=http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/alert-radio-canadian-dimension/2011/05/t... podcast[/url].

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Good article, U. Thanks!

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Interesting read Unionist.  

From the other side of the country it seems to me that the leap from the Bloc to the NDP was not very long.  in 2008 the CBC did a voter compass type thing but with actual language from the different parties platforms.  It was funny because myself and the majority of my friends working on Bill's campaigns chose the Bloc platform over the NDP.  The differences in policy between the platforms was minor.  

I am glad to see the sovereignty issue is going back to Quebec and leaving Ottawa.  If the people of Quebec want to vote to secede then so be it but in the meantime on federal government policy issues there seems to be a broad Canada wide left movement that is better united in the House than divided. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Great article.

Speaking to family and colleagues since the election,surprisingly,there are many anglophones like myself who now see sovereignty as an option.

There is a general wave of malaise starting to rise.

In fact,the front page of Le Devoir brought up the 'Americanization of Canada' and asked the question 'Is Harper George Bush?'

In La Presse,a story was written about journalists in 'English Canada' proposing to marginalize Quebec and asking the Cons to reduce Quebec ministers..Basically make them all backbenchers....PUNISH Quebec for the resounding rejection of Harper.

This is all music to my ears,everything is going in motion where interest in sovereignty will no doubt explode to the levels they once were in the late 60's and through the 70's into the early 80's and the early 1990's.

In the last 2 referendums,anglophones and allophones kept the vote below 50%.

The malaise and maginalization and alienation of Quebec,the deep divisions that are going to open up like a severed jugular,will see traditionally apathetic or  'non merci' voters voting in favour of cutting ties with Canada and will get an easy YES majority well over 60%.

Quebec has changed since the election..Where even Quebec anglophones are very angry with the outcome.

I look forward to June 24....It may well be one doozy of a Fete St-Jean.

KenS

alan smithee wrote:

Quebec has changed since the election..Where even Quebec anglophones are very angry with the outcome.

Which means nothing at all when judging about general trends. There will be some group of people who respond in every conceivable way to major events like the election. That there is a group of them, and they are like-minded, says nothing about how representative they are.

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