Quebec polls and parties 2014

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bekayne

sherpa-finn wrote:

In a similar vein to #395, - you might want to check out http://dossierqs.com/   I think this is the sort of source that passes for "non MSM" and is considered a reliable and reputable source over on Babble's international pages ...

In it, QS is clearly shown to be a false-flag party shilling for federalists, run by Trotskyites and answering to London, or Belgium or Vancouver. (It gets confusing., but there are also CIA and NDP links, trust me.) 

The implication is that QS now stands wholly unmasked, - and no self-respecting progressives should vote QS. But I stand to be corrected by someone with a more discerning sectarian eye.

It does not say who's behind the website. Just an innocent omission, I'm sure.

cco

CanadaOrangeCat wrote:

Meanwhile Montreal is building 5 new subway stations on the blue line to Anjou. Didn't even make the news.

I'll believe it when I see it, given that they've announced that same extension in every provincial and municipal campaign for the last 20 years -- even before the Laval extension was dreamed up.

CanadaOrangeCat

Heh. That's probably why it didn't make the news

cco

Reviving the shelved Pie-IX line would be more useful, if you ask me. A lot of people from the St-Michel area already take the 427 express instead of the blue line so they won't have to transfer (or transfer twice, if they're going to the green line). The blue line has always been the STM's neglected child. (Although the stations, especially Acadie, are unusually pretty.)

lagatta

Brachina, for about the 100th time, it is MAROIS, not Marios.

Stockholm, are you seriously comparing  Quebec anglos to southern US Blacks?

DaveW

sherpa-finn wrote:

The PQ is here to stay, and with the QS (under current leadership) effectively occupying the left-wing of the political spectrum, it will be a much more centrist party than before, largely indistinguishable from the Liberals on all but issues of national identity. 

I disagree. Demoralized PQ implodes, boom, after stunning defeat, some joining QS some trying to pretend nothing happened after the disaster of "le troisieme Non".

DaveW

Back to the main subject of this thread:

308's most realistic forecast now about 70-50 seats in favour of Liberals

Reversal of fortune, or what?

cco

lagatta wrote:

Stockholm, are you seriously comparing  Quebec anglos to southern US Blacks?

Yes, he is. I flagged the post, and am trying to abide by Unionist's exhortation not to engage Stockholm, who thinks he has "news" to teach me about the city I live in and he no longer does because the evil francos ran him out of town with their racism.

Stockholm

I'm saying that Marois and most of her party are racist xenophobes trying to cynically attract votes by attacking Muslims and Sikhs and now by engaging in vote suppression tactics against non-francophones...today Marois's second in command Bernard Drainville was referring to the Quebec Liberals as "le parti de la niqab" - could there be anything more insulting to voters intelligence than that? Imagine if the Tories starting calling the NDP 'The turban party"

aznd BTW, "Anglos" barely even exist in Quebec anymore - the really oppressed minority are all the immigrants many of whom are from French-speaking countries but who are still attacked by the PQ because they look a bit different from people named Tremblay or Morin and sometimes they even wear funny things on their heads. Its very sad how the PQ has gone from being a Quebec version of the NDP to being a Quebec version of the National Front in France.

cco

I'm an anglo, and an immigrant. Glad to hear I barely exist. (I believe the precedent you're looking for is referring to FHQ as "dead ducks".)

I suppose preferring the PQ to the Liberals means I wouldn't even exist in your mind if I'd been born and raised in Canada. Beyond that, as I've heard from you and others on this board, it means that I'm a damned immigrant coming in and trying to destroy Canada, who just doesn't understand how things are done here. If I wanted to vote Liberal, though, I'd be an oppressed minority. Got it.

If the Québec anglo community were made up entirely of the likes of you, Stockholm, as you seem to believe it is, I'd wish desperately for a successful referendum as soon as possible.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Stockholm wrote:

I'm saying that Marois and most of her party are racist xenophobes trying to cynically attract votes by attacking Muslims and Sikhs and now by engaging in vote suppression tactics against non-francophones...today Marois's second in command Bernard Drainville was referring to the Quebec Liberals as "le parti de la niqab" - could there be anything more insulting to voters intelligence than that? Imagine if the Tories starting calling the NDP 'The turban party"

aznd BTW, "Anglos" barely even exist in Quebec anymore - the really oppressed minority are all the immigrants many of whom are from French-speaking countries but who are still attacked by the PQ because they look a bit different from people named Tremblay or Morin and sometimes they even wear funny things on their heads. Its very sad how the PQ has gone from being a Quebec version of the NDP to being a Quebec version of the National Front in France.

Which is a case for fighting hard for QS now...rather than for secretly WANTING the PLQ to win massively this year(as it kind of sounds like you do) because you think that will get you a QNDP next time(which it won't, and which wouldn't be a good thing if it did, because a QNDP would end up being as watered-down and "respectable" as the federal party, a fact that would make such a party's existence in Quebec politics pointless).

What matters is that QS is the only party that fight for workers and the poor in Quebec politics(not talking about federal politics here).  Their constitutional views are irrelevant right now...since Quebec isn't likely to actually try to leave anytime soon, if they try again in this generation.

And anyone who wants to build a Left in Quebec needs to face this fact...while it's fine to attack the PQ(which may be becoming a dying party now anyway)a Left can't EVER be built in Quebec by demonizing sovereingntists and by treating sovereigntism as a heresy that must be recanted.  There can't ever be a time in which francophone nationalism WON'T be the organizing principle of any possible Quebec Left. There will be long periods of time(as we're likely heading into now)where that will be moved off of the top of the agenda, but you're never going to get the majority of Quebec francophones to NOT see their status in Canada as an essentially colonized people. 

If Canada is preserved as a unified polity, it will only be done by accepting that francophone Quebec is, always has been, and always will be, a nation-within-a-nation.   Acting like Quebec should be happy with being "just another province" means denying the reality of all the injustices and humiliations that created sovereigntism as a political tradition in Quebec, and means ending up sounding like one of those bitter old Anglos from the Sixties who kept saying "General Wolfe, we need you now".

Learn from that.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

sherpa-finn wrote:

In a similar vein to #395, - you might want to check out http://dossierqs.com/   I think this is the sort of source that passes for "non MSM" and is considered a reliable and reputable source over on Babble's international pages ...

In it, QS is clearly shown to be a false-flag party shilling for federalists, run by Trotskyites and answering to London, or Belgium or Vancouver. (It gets confusing., but there are also CIA and NDP links, trust me.) 

The implication is that QS now stands wholly unmasked, - and no self-respecting progressives should vote QS. But I stand to be corrected by someone with a more discerning sectarian eye.

Or possibly it's run outof Vancouver's trendy "Little Antwerp" district, a well-known enclave of exiled Cockney Trotskyites. 

Stockholm

cco wrote:

If the Québec anglo community were made up entirely of the likes of you, Stockholm, as you seem to believe it is, I'd wish desperately for a successful referendum as soon as possible.

I grew up in Quebec and believe it or not I even voted for the PQ in the first election i ever voted in - 1981 the reelection of the Levesque government. Back in those days the PQ was offering progressive, honest government and the referendum had just been defeated so national unity was off the table. But the PQ has evolved into a cynical rightwing party genuflecting before a pig like Pierre Karl Peladeau and now the only thing the PQ seems to stand for anymore is persecuting a handful of woman who want to wear scarves to work...its all very sad. But there is hope - if the PQ gets not just defeated but crushed in this election it will be a defeat for the politics of xenophobia and a defeat for PKP-style union bashing. Hopefully ther PQ will fall apart and next year Harper will be defeated and we can have a federal NDP government with a cabinet chock full of high powered cabinet ministers from Quebec and then we can all live happily ever after!

Stockholm

Ken Burch wrote:

  There can't ever be a time in which francophone nationalism WON'T be the organizing principle of any possible Quebec Left.

I think 57 NDP MPs from Quebec might take a different view on that

CanadaOrangeCat

I think we really need to dial down the rhetoric about 'racist xenophobes'. All this talk about Quebec might be emotionally triggering to some people, and might cause them to have an emotional breakdown, or some kind of other unpleasant reaction. Or they may have what we call on places like reddit, or certain other debating fora, an "excrement loss", although it is expressed more briefly. The word 'loss' is critical here, as it implies several things in context:

1) losing the debate by skirting too close to Godwin's Law
2) a sadness at a loss
3) a loss of debating credibility

If a person is feeling in the losing way, they may consider going to other places where such feelings are not triggered, and where they won't be reminded of all of the unpleasant memories.

Which is why I moved back to Quebec. So, yeah, if Quebec wants to separate so they can (a tad ironically I admit) leave that kind of detached, separated mentality behind, count me in!

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Most of them aren't sanctimonious anti-sovereingntists. 

And they didn't get elected by telling sovereigntist voters "If you vote for me, you are admitting you were wrong to want what you wanted".

It's fine to want to keep Quebec within Quebec, but that has to mean accepting it as a nation-within-a-nation.  And there's no non-right wing case for being against that now.

Sovereigntism isn't a medieval heresy, Stocks...it was a valid response to reality.  No left that doesn't honor the truth of that can prosper long-term in Quebec.

And the good thing is, the decline of the PQ vote means sovereigntists in Quebec are rejecting the xenophobia and bigotry of Marois' PQ...and this creates the chance to build a new Left there.  

In the end, THAT is what really matters. 

I think most of us agree with you about the direction the PQ has taken, but anathemizing all sovereigntists isn't the way to knock the PQ out of the game.  If a QNDP were to emerge, it would primarily appeal to voters who are, at least to some degree, soveigntist...because in Quebec now, old-style federalism is supported only by right-wing capitalist types. 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Thanks for that post, Cat.

Krago

Nominations are closed for the Quebec election and only the Liberals are running a full slate of 125 candidates.

 

The PQ is not running a candidate in La Piniere, in support of former Liberal Fatima Houda-Pepin who is seeking re-election as an independent.  The CAQ didn't get enough valid signatures in Saint-Laurent, Soulanges or Westmount--Saint-Louis, and I'm not sure why Quebec Solidaire isn't on the ballot in Nelligan.

 

Here are the totals by party:

  •  125 Parti libéral du Québec/Quebec Liberal Party 
  •  124 Parti québécois 
  •  124 Québec solidaire 
  •  122 Coalition avenir Québec - L'équipe François Legault 
  •  116 Option nationale - Pour l'indépendance du Québec 
  •  60 Équipe Adrien Pouliot - Parti conservateur du Québec 
  •  44 Parti vert du Québec/Green Party of Québec 
  •  24 Parti marxiste-léniniste du Québec 
  •  24 Parti nul 
  •  14 Bloc pot 
  •  6 Mon pays le Québec 
  •  5 Équipe autonomiste 
  •  5 Parti des sans parti 
  •  5 Parti équitable 
  •  3 Parti unité nationale 
  •  1 Parti indépendantiste 
  •  1 Québec - Révolution démocratique 
  •  1 Union citoyenne du Québec / Québec Citizens' Union 
  •  11 (blank) 
  •  815 Total

 

 

lagatta

By the way, the Parti autonomiste is a rightwing party, not anything to do with anarchist-type "autonomists". They actually had a (very amateurish) free ad on Radio-Canada yesterday morning.

Oh, I think we all agree about the rightward drift of the PQ, but in no way does that invalidate the national question.

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:
And anyone who wants to build a Left in Quebec needs to face this fact...while it's fine to attack the PQ(which may be becoming a dying party now anyway)a Left can't EVER be built in Quebec by demonizing sovereingntists and by treating sovereigntism as a heresy that must be recanted.  There can't ever be a time in which francophone nationalism WON'T be the organizing principle of any possible Quebec Left. There will be long periods of time(as we're likely heading into now)where that will be moved off of the top of the agenda, but you're never going to get the majority of Quebec francophones to NOT see their status in Canada as an essentially colonized people. 

If Canada is preserved as a unified polity, it will only be done by accepting that francophone Quebec is, always has been, and always will be, a nation-within-a-nation.   Acting like Quebec should be happy with being "just another province" means denying the reality of all the injustices and humiliations that created sovereigntism as a political tradition in Quebec, and means ending up sounding like one of those bitter old Anglos from the Sixties who kept saying "General Wolfe, we need you now".

Learn from that.

As someone from Western Canada, my immediate reaction is "let's just back this train up a bit." The reality that you are describing, indeed the reality that is promoted by the Ontario elite media, is that of "Canada" as it was around the 1840s to 1860s, where what is now Ontario and Quebec each had roughly equal populations within Canada. The country of Canada has grown considerably in that time, and this assumption is no longer operative. In fact, for all the credit he gets as Captain Canada, this assumption was not valid even when Pierre Trudeau was Prime Minister, as is shown by the fact that he barely won any seats in Western Canada. Certainly Quebeckers have legitimate reasons for seeing themselves as being colonized, but you also have to remember that nearly every other province had to be dragged kicking and screaming into Confederation or threatened to separate or even rebelled at gunpoint. The dualistic idea of "Quebec-ROC" is losing traction, even in Quebec. Think about it. Quebec just ended a minority government that lasted 2 years old, and in a minority government every party gets roughly equal exposure. So if it's just a matter of the PQ turning righward, why isn't QS rocketing up in the polls? Why are the Liberals the prime beneficiaries? Blaming the media and the political establishment can only take you so far.

Yes, Quebec has issues that need to be addressed, but if this country of Canada is going to work, every region of the country and the First Nations need to be involved in the discussion, rather than thinking that "Canada" can do something to "accomodate Quebec."

Unionist

[ thread meta-comment ] So, this thread is now dominated by Stockholm's frenzied anti-Québec provocations (and those who actually think it's worth answering his vicious remarks), plus helpful comments about how Québec should deal with its exaggerated outmoded "maybe-you-were-a-colony-once-but-get-over-yourselves-you're-just-like-PEI-now" national question.

These are the backward and tone-deaf attitudes that continually spark the revival of the independence movement in Québec. Thanks a lot for making our job of building an equal and just federation impossible. [ / back to the real discussion ]

I was chatting with the leader of the Parti Vert the other day, asking why they don't find a way to join forces with QS - given that they (the Greens) have done a good shift to the left (as lagatta was mentioning upthread) and now describe themselves as "eco-socialists". The two main points I understood in his response were: 1. They promote independence - we're neutral on that issue. 2. They promote a secular charter (albeit without the ban on religious symbols in the public service) - we are totally opposed to any such thing at this time, because it's a pure wedge issue and is totally unnecessary.

Funny - I kind of agree with him on both counts - at least, I'm open to that conversation. But I don't think, in our system, you can afford to simply vote for the party which happens to be saying more of the things you like than the other parties. I'm still going with QS.

 

Fluff

Nothing wrong with an analogy that looks at the fact that the PQ are very obviously pulling pages from the Republican playbook, as Harper has done. As someone who lives in Montreal and has closely watched election strategies for many, many years, I have my suspicions that the PQ have even consulted Frank Luntz, redoubtable gun-for-hire Rethug strategist. When Harper brought him to Quebec a few years back, there may have been some cross-pollination. I have no smoking gun, of course. Some people on this board act as tho' neo-liberal politicians are not neo-liberal politicians and impute to them a line they will not cross, which I think is horseshit.  

KenS

Echoing the last point by Unionist:

Even people who say they vote mostly "on principals" are implicitly if not explicitly choosing based on where they perceive parties are going, what they are capable of, as well as where the parties they say they are now.

Stay tuned for the next basic positioning of Parti Vert.

sherpa-finn

Embedded image permalink

CanadaOrangeCat

I think the right wing party to watch is the "Équipe Adrien Pouliot - Parti conservateur du Québec" (Team Adrien Pouliot - Conservative Party of Quebec). It has already shown it is cynical and manipulative enough to change from social conservative to social liberal in one election cycle, and it has Blue Chip antecedents and support. It did 0.13% in the last election, and if there is any material improvement at all you can bet the gutter press and the CBC will be all over them like a bear to honey. This should not be too hard, as they went from 27 candidates to 60. If they get 0.28% of the vote they can be hailed as the glint on the edge of the blade of the sword of Quebec politics. 

ADQ -> CAQ -> PCQ seems about right. 

I know what you are saying about feeding the trolls, however I also think you have to smoke them out, because they can dangle a whole channel/thread with their passive aggression for years. If you don't comment on what they say, someone else is going to say you have tolerated their points of view. The best solution is to shut someone out, but if there is no power to do that you have to take them on for the record.

Perhaps one fix would be to set threads/thread groups up as channels with operators who can kick people from making posts without kicking them from the whole network. It could cause the creation of cliques however.

I have seen this on other Internet media. On the Internet the obvious has to be stated, when you don't need ambiguity or obfuscation because an issue needs to be considered. I know this make me a "contradictory idiot", as I am told several times a day unless I am doing something wrong.

The whole idea of a "Province" in this day and age is sickening. The Roman Empire had Provinces. So did the British. As long as Canada has Provinces, it is an Empire. We should just call them Jurisdictions, because then if they want to call themselves nations or Crown colonies it is up to them. I do not see what is wrong with calling them States. If you really want the wife of Prince Philip as your eternal head of State, it should be all right for you to live in a State. They manage to do so in Australia.

It is not a question of whether your Empire includes Quebec, but whether your psychology does. I am afaid the two are mutually exclusive.

CanadaOrangeCat

DQ

Fluff

I found that when I moved to Quebec 24 years ago from Ontario, left anglophones, myself included, were desperate not to be lumped in with angryphones, a pathetically regressive and deluded bunch, to be sure, but it didn't always make for cool analysis and some regretable PQ behavior over the years was given a pass. Marois, when minister of health, took away the underpaid Quebec nurses' right to strike and Bouchard oversaw the opening of the greatest number of private clinics in Canada. I was dismayed by how long it took for the PQ to lose its unearned progressive public face and finally have it replaced with a realistic centre-right, neo-liberal one. I've lived with people's assumption for a very long time that my criticism of the PQ came from my being a regretably not-very-good-at-French anglo and not from my being an anarcho-syndicalist, which is where it lies. I'm not particularly arsed about it, it's an assumption that hasn't been fatal, and the reaction has often been very generous, if not misguided. There are a number of Americans that give Obama a pass in much the same way, which Glenn Greenwald has written extensively and well about. Young people of all backgrounds are much better about it than previous generations in Quebec and that's where hope lies. If, and it's big if, we don't get lost to a plague of factionalism, and looking at the trigger-finger pointing on this board I can't say I'm not a little uneasy.

Unionist

Fluff wrote:
If, and it's big if, we don't get lost to a plague of factionalism, and looking at the trigger-finger pointing on this board I can't say I'm not a little uneasy.

Here's the good news - and being new here, you may not have noticed this. All the babblers who live in Québec more or less agree on everything - the municipal scene, the "provincial" scene, the student strike, you name it. I've actually never seen this much broad consensus and it's very heartening. The Québec-bashing horseshit - "racists!!" - "pur laine!!" - the "you need a provincial NDP" superciliousness - the trolling - all comes from outsiders. And it tends to come in spurts. We're in a spurt right now, but it'll pass.

 

lagatta

I tend to think the rightwing "identitaire" stuff in the latest incarnation of the PQ has European, and not US Republican party, roots. Look at vigile.net , an ultra-nationalist website that certainly has an influence.

Fluff, people have different styles of language learning, and often it is a matter of finding a method and above all a teacher corresponding to yours.

sherpa-finn

What Unionist just said.

lagatta

I also agree with Unionist. Probably because we all are involved in actual social struggles here, on different levels. Me, in a tenants' association, the Montreal Cyclists Coalition, and various international solidarity initiatives...

Fluff

I'm not actually referring to Republican content in the PQ platform, which may or may not be there, rather its stategy - the envy of elite politicians the world over. Why not? Getting people to vote against their own best interests has been an apallingly impressive sight to behold. And Flagism is a gift that keeps on giving......

DaveW

I trust the QC voters, who know when to turf a bad Govt. Polls show they are well on the way to doing that on April 7th.

What we really need here is a political Big Bang, where old parties die and new movements can replace them, like Italy with the Olive Tree coalition that replaced the moribund Socialists and Communists.

Brachina

 The rules have been "Clarified" in regards to voters, you must be a Canadian Citizen, lived in the province in the province for the last six months and intend to live in Quebec.

 How do they know if the Students don't plan on living in Quebec permantantly? This is disgusting voter suppression Harper style and this open to abuse with electoral officials deciding if one plans on living in the province permanantly or not. What other province in Canada are students prevented from voting?

 I hope this gets taken to court. Between this and the unfair elections act one has to wonder if this is the future of democracy in this country, where one finds a pretext and steals the vote from ones oppentants. And I'm not singling Quebec out because if this benifits the PQ, I could see the Sask Party amd other rightwing regimes adapting this rule as well.

DaveW

Stockholm, I am sorry: your political judgement above is the least impressive I have ever seen by you here, sounds like you flipped to The Sun or Ezra Levant or something

Bizarrely poor use of analogies (US South???) and political equivalents

I have often agreed with you, but whoa, take a vacation or something, your stress is showing in bad analyses

Most people here will put you metaphorically on "Ignore".

As an Anglo who moved back here from Europe in early 2013, I can attest that the services and treatment I have from Quebec - Hydro, tax office, drivers, education, voters list - are entirely fair , generally in English (in the case of drivers and voters all docs in English alone) and
the general political climate no different from Europe broadly where sadly, ethnic and religious provocations have become more mainstream.
To be combatted, but certainly no stronger here than elsewhere in the West.
Get a grip.

Brachina

 Side note if this "Rule" had been in effect Charmaine Borg, Quebec MP would not have been allowed to vote in the last Quebec Election. She's originally from Ontario, Keswick, but was going to school in Quebec 

 

 If one has to remove the right to vote from students ones campaign must truely be voing horribly.

Fluff

Voter suppression based on an exaggerated threat of voter fraud. This is as Republican in strategic terms as it gets. Yes, the PQ sound desperate, but we know from watching our neighbours (neighbors?) to the south that waaaaay too often this shit works. The Soundcloud recording of the student being denied his right to vote is hard to listen to without a rise in BP, and it's clear from this that it's a directive from Quebec that came before there was any hint of this in the public realm - ergo, a pre-planned strategy. Hordes of students from Ontario coming to take away Quebec's democracy! Do you laugh or do you cry? I think I'll drink........

 

https://soundcloud.com/anonmcgill/voter-suppression

swallow

The rules haven't changed, if that is what's meant by scare quotes around "clarified" - you have to be a Canadian citizen. six months resident in Quebec, and residency shown by a document such as a Quebec driver's licence or health card. If you pay taxes as a resident of Ontario or other province, you don't normally get to vote in Quebec. This is straightforward enough. 

The 5 ridings are 3 in Montreal - Sainte-Marie-Saint-Jacques, Saint-Henri-Sainte-Anne et Westmount-Saint-Louis - plus 2 in Sherbrooke - Sherbrooke et Saint-Francois. I know at McGill and Bishop's there are efforts to encourage students to vote, as there are at other (French-speaking) universities. This is all well and good, but it's silly to see signs of organizer voter suppression efforts in the McGill cases reported. 

Re the graphic above -- as a resident of one of those ridings, I'd certainly not change my QS vote to PQ under any circumstances (and certainly not to Marois' PQ). Nor would many QS voters, I'm certain. 

 

chimurenga chimurenga's picture

"...it's silly to see signs of organizer voter suppression efforts in the McGill cases reported."

Is it any sillier than having returning officers toss out unknown numbers of "no" votes in the 1995 referendum?

Listen to the recording, though, and notice that the second official that the student speaks to says that they were told "from Quebec" that there are many students from Ontario who are trying to vote illegitimately in the election. Accordingly, she claimed, requirements for accepting voter registration have changed. The election act hasn't changed, but the interpretation (subject to the decision of individual officials) of it conveniently (and probably illegaly) has. Sounds like organised voter suppression to me.

KenS

So far its not really voter suppression.

The 'only' thing we know so far is that the PQ is making a big show of huffing and puffing... more posturing to stampede francophone swing votes towards themselves.

Actual voter suppression might come if they get a majority- like Harper, to tilt the playing field in their direction.

Or like the Republicans: rather than changing the rules per se, sending out fleets of staffers and lawyers to systematically hound voters off the rolls.

KenS

Come to think of it, if anything the PQ is doing the opposite of suppressing the opponents votes.

I'm sure they are aware that they will encourage a lot of their opponents to make sure they vote.... more than the sprinking they can get removed from voter lists.

But its worth it for the bogeyman effect, to stampede the softer nationalist vote in their direction.

chimurenga chimurenga's picture

Voter suppression makes no sense when you have a majority. On the contrary, it's exactly in situations like this, where the position of the PQ is precarious, that you should expect voter suppression. Notice that the ridings that have been singled out are ridings where an increase in "new" voters (i.e. students) could genuinely alter the outcomes - and these new voters are presumed more likely to not vote PQ. Harper used voter suppression tactics precisely to win a majority with the thinnest of margins - and in marginal ridings - he needed every vote in those areas to assure himself of a majority. The logic would be much the same for the PQ, who hoped to gain a majority but who are now at risk of losing their position as the governing party.

Fluff

Altho' I agree that the real effect the PQ are going for with today's press conference was to target the soft nationalist "low info" voter,  I wonder why some people find it so hard to believe that voter suppression is one of the PQ's tactics. They have, without due editing, thrown every type of crap at the walls of this election campaign in the hopes that something will stick. Why voter suppression would have some kind of "no go" privilege is beyond me. What did Izzy Stone say again? - "governments lie all the time.... about everything" 

DaveW

I'd say!

KenS

chimurenga wrote:

Voter suppression makes no sense when you have a majority. On the contrary, it's exactly in situations like this, where the position of the PQ is precarious, that you should expect voter suppression.

Do you really think that by huffing and puffing and calling press conferences, the PQ is going to effect voting officials to go out and hammer away on students trying to register? If you are focused single mindedly on voter suppression, the first thing you do is innundate the bureaucracy with itemized complaints.

But if your primary goal is posturing to stampede soft nationalist voters, you encite their resentments. Fucking anglo students from Ontario and Alberta.

And the PQ knows this cuts two ways. They know those presss conferences and saber rattling are motivating anglo and allophone voters who might otherwise not bother. Every election campaign avoids motivating your opponents voters. Unless of course the divisive wedge nets out much more in your favour.

KenS

And yes, you do go for institutionalizing voter suppression when you have a majority. That's what Harper is doing right now.

The Republicans in the US don't manage much of this, because the US system does not allow the kind of near absolute control of all the levers of power that we get with the Westminster parliamentary system.

But they achieve and sustain much more results than Harper ever will, by waging permanent guerilla warfare on the elections bureaucracies.

Fluff

Voter suppression is not just kicking people off the voter rolls. Republicans have passed virtually all of the voter ID laws in the various States, the most stringent of which was passed just last week by a Republican Governor, saying, as usual, that it's due to voter fraud, evidence of which has very rarely been found - usually none, actually. Voter ID laws ultimately target the poor, the elderly, the young and people of colour who are less likely to have ID and are assumed to be more likely to vote Democrat. The operating principle is, every hassle at the voting booth helps helps the cause, whichever cause.......

The PQ is saying the RoC is distorting the vote, when in all probability the reverse is true. All anti-democratic efforts are to be deplored - I also recognize the fingerprints from years of researching this field.

Unionist

This is an example of why I vote QS, even if I don't share their views on everything. They are principled. They are not opportunist. They are not desperate to win at all costs.

[url=http://www.quebecsolidaire.net/quebec-solidaire-fait-confiance-au-dgeq-p... has confidence that the Director General of Elections will get at the truth on allegations of electoral irregularities[/url]

 

CanadaOrangeCat

So I guess the article in yesterday's Le Devoir was like a whistle to the PQ if this is still being talked about and the PQ politicized it.

Not a good strategy IMO as it poisons the well, and it is not a binary system like the US where you need 50% + 1 to win *ahem*. Multi-party systems require more rationality. If you are trying to whip up hysteria, you do not want to do so around angryphones. No way McKay. 

The other thing which is just mind-boggling is:

"Ms. Marois, Didn't you ride into a minority government on the students of Quebec? Didn't you march with them with a casserole in your hand? Now you want to demonize students? Who else is going to vote for you?"

I can only conclude Ms. Marois and her crew seem to be doing everything possible to throw this election. That chart with all the ridings which would go over if you voted QS is highly dysfunctional. There ARE NO "low information" voters in Quebec, as far as THAT is concerned. Expletives deleted.

PQ: "How dare you want to leave us for QS because if you do so we will lose".
Soi: "Well I want you to lose which is why I am going to vote QS." 
PQ: "But if we lose, the Liberals will win."
Soi: "Yeah well vive la difference."

One idea of the vote for the QS is saying to the PQ that there is no difference between them and the Liberals. Quit blaming your victims.

In February she released her budget, and I read it in detail. It had 3200 social housing units. A $2 billion deficit. Compared to Ontario where I had just come from, it was very good. I really thought all she had to do was run on that and competent governance. All she had to say was "We are not doing a referendum this term, but we are going to be developing the Quebec nation in the following manners, and I promise I will call an election on the referendum question before I call a referendum". There is so much stuff that can be done for the Quebec nation without having a referendum. Which would also be good for Canada.

Fluff

Since their inception, I have voted QS, which in my riding is mostly tilting at windmills, but maybe not forever and ever, as it seems now. I think this lastest PQ tomfoolery is targetting QS voters whose nationalist affiliations will supposedly outweigh their social justice ones.

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