Vimy Park in Outremont to be renamed Jacques Parizeau Park

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6079_Smith_W

I wouldn't say most identify as Métis, any more than Anglophones who have mixed blood family (and I'd say many are closer to that than they are aware). They are Francophone communities. There are plenty who have mixed blood names like Ross or Chartier who do not.

But in 1870 there were more people of mixed blood in Red River than of any single culture, including First Nations. That only changed with the influx of settlers from Canada.

The obituary of one of my family members said he was "the first white man in the region" which is, of course, ridiculous. He wasn't David Livingstone, and there had been settlers there for hundreds of years. Plays right into those Eurocentric myths, though.

Again, it is important to put these names on things, especially because real history tends to get buried by people for whom it is an embarrassment or threat.

 

 

MegB

Misfit wrote:
Jane Goodall park sounds great. However I think she was into chimpanzees, not monkeys. Gee, mYbe I can be called a racist for that one too.
What the hell is wrong with you? Stop suggesting that people here are racist. And the above is seriously offensive.

6079_Smith_W

lagatta wrote:

I don't believe Franco-Manitobains are the majority in St-Boniface or other places in the area, but they remain an important presence.

I was surprised there are only 51,000 in a province ot 1.2 million.

South East of town where I went to high school it was a little better than 50/50. And I was in high school (70s) when they separated us by language.

Quote:

Lorsque les villes ou villages possèdent un établissement scolaire francophone, la vitalité de la langue française sort renforcée dans ces communautés urbaines. C'est le cas pour les villes suivantes4 :

  • Notre-Dame-de-Lourdes (1991 : 75 % de francophones et 1996 : 96 % de francophones) ;
  • Saint-Pierre-Jolys (1991 : 76 % de francophones et 1996 : 83 % de francophones) ;
  • Saint-Lazare (1991 : 75 % de francophones et 1996 : 78 % de francophones) ;
  • Ste. Anne (1991 : 58 % de francophones et 1996 : 62 % de francophones) ;
  • Somerset (1991 : 58 % de francophones et 1996 : 77 % de francophones)

Par contre, si une communauté francophone ne possèdent pas d'école francophone, la langue française aura tendance à diminuer, comme à Saint-Claude (78 % de francophones en 1991 et 69 % en 1996)

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Manitobains

Perhaps just as important, and more relevant to this thread, part of the reason why there is a significant presence is that you can see the names and history everywhere. Even when people were downplaying and denying Metis and Anglo half-blood heritage because of shame, the names were still on the streets. Couldn't avoid it; before 1870 the vast majority were mixed blood, including many of those in authority.

So again, if no one kicks up a fuss about having schools, buildings and streets named after Anglo racists, murderers and war criminals, freaking out about Parizeau for one unfortunate comment is ridiculous. And really, this is more about people's attitudes about sovereignty; even if that wasn't there as an excuse, they would still be howling.

And this act is less to do with honouring a fellow, who is after all dead and could care less, that having that history present as a reminder.

 

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

I never accused people of being racist. I was accused of being racist.

lagatta

Misfit, I did not assume that you were ignorant of the great lines of Canadian history, and certainly not that you were an ignorant person.  I confess that while I had some knowledge of Métis and francophone Manitoba, I'm not nearly well-enough informed about that, and that my knowledge of the complex and unique cultural history of British Columbia is sketchier still. It is IMPOSSIBLE to know everything about history. And when you get to master's level - alas I never finished my doctorate - the subjects you study grow ever more particular. In theory, they teach you how to learn and study and they have been useful in my actual work which requires developing some understanding and familiarity with fields in which I'm an utter layperson.

And we are all simians: humans, other great apes, and monkeys. All are perfectly fine living beings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simian

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Based on lagatta's Unionist and lagatta's comments in this thread, I'm going to withdraw my opposition to renaming the park after Jaques Parizeau. It looks as though Parizeau's "money and the ethnic vote" comment was not a reference to poc immigrants, as I had thought. And I could care less whether white anglos were offended by the comment.

Parizeau still wouldn't be my first choice to name the park, but I'm glad the park is no longer going to named after Vimy Ridge.

lagatta

Left Turn, discussing among friends, we thing WOMEN deserve much more pride of place in place naming. So do figures in labour and social movements. Obviously people of different ethno-cultural backgrounds - not necessarily in Montréeal - do as well. And right now there is a big movement os "savage toponymy" attempting to restore what is known of Indigenous names to places that bear French or English ones. For example, Place d'Armes in Old Montreal, which has been a meeting place for trade, culture and peace negotiations for hundreds, and perhaps thousands of years.

Hmm, I was really against the bellicist WWI centenary stuff, but we should not forget the sons - and sometimes daughters - of ordinary workers and farmers who became "cannon fodder" for crowned heads and plutocrats. I have no objection to a street or park named after Vimy with a Käthe Kollwitz type monument to the terrible waste of young life. 

 

The Grieving Parents, for her son Peter and so many others.

Or this, from Midnight Oil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9eap_cKLP4 Forgotten Years

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

So what Parizeau said was SINGULARLY unforgiveable?

The guy didn't just "regret" what he said...he resigned as premier the next day.

What more could he have done?

And unlike the battle of Vimy, Parizeau's mistake didn't cause thousands of young men to slaughter each other in the name of the egos of arrogant cousin-emperors.

Misfit Misfit's picture

When a politician loses an election or a major vote on a referendum, it is quite common for that politician to step down soon afterward. While this does not always happen, his resignation was not out of the ordinary.

Unionist

Ken Burch wrote:

And unlike the battle of Vimy, Parizeau's mistake didn't cause thousands of young men to slaughter each other in the name of the egos of arrogant cousin-emperors.

Are you trying to tarnish the glory of our patriotic warriors, our sacred dead, who selflessly sacrificed their lives for... ummm... wait a sec, I knew this one... FREEDOM from the Kaiser, I think!

And created a new nation, CANADA, on the corpses of more young Canadians than perished in World War II?

Have you no feelings? Does your breast not SWELL?

 

jjuares

The battle of Vimy Ridge is an important part of Canadian history. This among other things was the last war Canada was automatically involved because Britain was part of it. Historic events in all their squalor and glory need to be recognized through the naming of public spaces.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Historic events in all their squalor and glory need to be recognized through the naming of public spaces.

Hehe.  OK, no shortage of the glory, but when was the last time squalor had a voice?  Where's "Forced Sterilization Bridge" or whatever?

6079_Smith_W

And there is a Vimy something or other in pretty much every city in the country. I doubt anyone is going to forget it.

I'll tell you one thing, I certainly don't buy the bullshit line being sold that it was where Canada became a nation.

It was a slaughterhouse, and it was a battle where Canadians succeeded where others failed. That doesn't change the fact that entire war was a tragic waste of life, and nothing good at all came out of it.

 

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

And there is a Vimy something or other in pretty much every city in the country. I doubt anyone is going to forget it.

I'll tell you one thing, I certainly don't buy the bullshit line being sold that it was where Canada became a nation.

It was a slaughterhouse, and it was a battle where Canadians succeeded where others failed. That doesn't change the fact that entire war was a tragic waste of life, and nothing good at all came out of it.

Not to mention that the limiteed gains made by the Canadians at vimy -- indeed all allied gains made in the 1915-17 period -- were wiped out and then some during the German offsinsives in Spring 1918.

Vimy Ridge didn't affect the outcome of the war one whit, and I've always found it strange that the pro-militarist forces in this country spend ao much effort commemorating it, and so little commemorating Canada's contribution to the fall 1918 allied offensive that helped to hasten the German revolution, which overthrew the Kaiser and brought about the end of the war.

jjuares

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Historic events in all their squalor and glory need to be recognized through the naming of public spaces.

Hehe.  OK, no shortage of the glory, but when was the last time squalor had a voice?  Where's "Forced Sterilization Bridge" or whatever?


Vimy is both. A military success in a war of endless butchery. So squalor has a voice here too. Public spaces should reflect history. That bring public awareness and then individuals can decide for themselves.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Unionist wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

And unlike the battle of Vimy, Parizeau's mistake didn't cause thousands of young men to slaughter each other in the name of the egos of arrogant cousin-emperors.

Are you trying to tarnish the glory of our patriotic warriors, our sacred dead, who selflessly sacrificed their lives for... ummm... wait a sec, I knew this one... FREEDOM from the Kaiser, I think!

And created a new nation, CANADA, on the corpses of more young Canadians than perished in World War II?

Have you no feelings? Does your breast not SWELL?

 

It swells sometimes.  But I put an anti-inflammatory on it and that clears right up.

swallow swallow's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Historic events in all their squalor and glory need to be recognized through the naming of public spaces.

Hehe.  OK, no shortage of the glory, but when was the last time squalor had a voice?  Where's "Forced Sterilization Bridge" or whatever?

Plenmty of squalour is celebrated. The city of Moncton, named for the man who ordered massive deportations of Acadians, hardly celebrates clory. 

And so on, and so on.

lagatta

Vimy Park is on Avenue de Vimy. The street name is not going away. The former town of Verdun was also (re) named for a particularly bloody battle; there used to be weapons plants there - David Fennario wrote a play about this. Sadly, we don't see David much any more, with his health condition. And there is a Dieppe in New Brunswick.

I'll defend Parc Jacques Parizeau against the angryphones, but I'm annoyed that once again we are honouring a man when only 6 percent of streets, parks and other public places in Montréal are named after women.

Since Claude-Jutra has been "disappeared" due to accusations of pedophilia, his little park has been renamed for Ethel Stark: http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=1560,1723376&_dad=portal...

http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=1560,11245605&_dad=porta... Toponymelles

Aataentsic and Kinuajuak Asivak don't seem to have streets, parks or other places yet; this seems to be a bank of feminine names seeking places. Aataentsic is a mythological figure, the mother goddess of humanity according to Huron-Wendat beliefs. I hope Kinuajuak gets a place with some artistic importance.

jjuares

Some object to the name of Vimy, others object to Parizeau. The obvious solution is to simply drop all names for any public spaces, parks, buildings, roads etc. Let's just give them all numbers. Now of course some people might object to some numbers because of bad associations. But we can fix that by setting up a commission and if someone objects we just won't use that number.

6079_Smith_W

Nah. I was kidding upthread about numbers. Besides, people are going to call places what they want, and no commission can control that.

 

jjuares

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Nah. I was kidding upthread about numbers. Besides, people are going to call places what they want, and no commission can control that.

 


That's right. It was your idea. And a good one I say, especially for people on the left. At first, people might refer to parks as formerly known as Jasper ( just like Prince) but eventually they would know its true name, " 2806512". It kind of has a good ring to it. I can just see the great conversations. " Have you been to park 603751? It is so beautiful in the fall?"

Unionist

jjuares wrote:
" Have you been to park 603751? It is so beautiful in the fall?"

Good suggestion, but "fall" still has a potential militaristic ring to it. We should go with: "It is so beautiful in Season #3."

 

jjuares

Unionist wrote:

jjuares wrote:
" Have you been to park 603751? It is so beautiful in the fall?"

Good suggestion, but "fall" still has a potential militaristic ring to it. We should go with: "It is so beautiful in Season #3."

 


Good suggestion. Unfortunately 3 bad things have happened to me recently so that number brings up bad memories. I suggest we give the number 6209 to the season formerly known as fall.

jjuares

First park to be renamed in Edmonton will probably be a nice little park along the river, called " Grant Notley Park". That 60 % of the population of Alberta will want this done goes without saying.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think that 666 is a park that should be decommissioned. It seems to attract the wrong kinds of people and the blood sacrifices and other rituals are disturbing the other users of the park.

lagatta

Autumn.

Moncton is a particularly horrible example, given the large number of Acadians in that city. Beausoleil?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

lagatta wrote:

Autumn.

Moncton is a particularly horrible example, given the large number of Acadians in that city. Beausoleil?

Or maybe just Le Blanc.

jjuares

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think that 666 is a park that should be decommissioned. It seems to attract the wrong kinds of people and the blood sacrifices and other rituals are disturbing the other users of the park.


LOL

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

[IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/5oh6iu.jpg[/IMG]

I think this is it.  No massive statute... yet!

lagatta

Yes, that is obviously earlier in the season, but it is an undistinguished little park.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

And knowing how municipal planning works, if they did go with a massive statue then they'd put it where the bench is, and remove the bench.

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