Great Schism

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6079_Smith_W

Good idea, unless you are one of those who are in exile.

Besides, people want to post where they want to post and there is nothing wrong with that.

This is a technical problem, and the solution lies there.

I'm not a techie, but I'd suggest contacting the web host. One presumes they are still being paid, and want to continue to get paid. And that's only going to happen so long if no one can get to the site.

https://www.netfirms.com/support/

6079_Smith_W

Also on whois, it says the domain registration was updated May 1, the day after people noticed it was down.It also says it is on auto-renew.

Again, I have no idea what this means, but I am sure someone who knows the basics about this stuff would.

 

 

Caissa

Ah Smith, most of the exiles are self-imposed. Yes, people can post where they want. I find it a pity that with so few left posters that they are diluted across 2 sites.

6079_Smith_W

Most.

And tell them it isn't a big deal. Where I stand on that is pretty clear, but it is also true that "you're out until you can follow the rules" isn't simply a choice.

And as I said, that isn't the problem .

Caissa

So what is the "problem"? Choosing not to follow rules is almost always a choice.

Unionist

Caissa wrote:

So what is the "problem"? Choosing not to follow rules is almost always a choice.

Sometimes people lose their temper - justifiably or not - can't back down, and either leave or are told to leave. We should reach out to them, regularly, and invite them back. No one should have to die on that hill.

As for following rules, yes, anyone can do that in the context of a discussion board. Like paying your taxes. You just do it.

Caissa

We choose our principles; they are not innate. I have posted on Babble, En Masse and B n R. I would be extremely pleased if En Masse was resuscitated. And, if it is not, I would very pleased to see people who post there exclusively consider posting on Babble.

6079_Smith_W

We have gone around this one a few times, but what is the big deal?

In the first place, no. A matter of principle is not just a matter of choice, even if it is what I consider a stupid matter of principle. I have big differences with some of those have left here on those grounds, but I have enough respect for their decisions to not reduce it to them just being mad or not having the sense to see things my way and ease up.

There are also those who have been bullied, or who feel this place no longer represents their interests.

And who cares how many people are on the board if there are enough people there who think it is worth it. I am a member of other boards which are deader (if we want to use the pejorative) but if there are enough people who want to be there whose business is it?

I post stuff here that people elsewhere would have no intest in. And stuff elsewhere that would probably be greeted with crickets or worse if I posted it here.

It is a big internet. Anyone with more brains than me have an answer to Tehanu's question? I think the most supportive thing we can do is to try and help them get up again, not make aruguments as to why they should die.

 

6079_Smith_W

Not to put too fine a point on it, but they are also recognized as a human right, Caissa. Freedom of conscience.

I wouldn't blow this up into a charter case, but neither would I reduce this to a choice which is as easily changed as your pants.

Caissa

Since you want to go down this road, principles as conscience are certainly not a universal human right. Quite often someone acting appoint their conscience leads to decisions which discriminate. We only have to examine some reason attempts to pass laws in the US to protect peopla acting on their conscience. I don't see any evidence in psychology to argue that conscience is anything separate from making a rational, logical choice.

6079_Smith_W

Actually matters of conscience (political affiliation or religion) are recognized as things which can be used to discriminate against people

We don't resolve those problems by saying someone can choose to stop being a catholic or a communist.

Again, I don't see this is a case of discrmination, but even if I disagree with the reasons some people have had for leaving, I respect them, and I don't assume it is just stubborness, or they should change to suit our fashion.

 

Caissa

I think we are speaking at cross purposes. I haven't sugestion anyone needs to change; I suggest that they can choose to change.

Unionist

So, is there something wrong with reaching out to old friends and telling them that we (or I or you or whoever) miss them and would love to see them back here? We could add the apparently necessary disclaimer: "Of course, we respect entirely your reasons for leaving (or getting kicked out) and this invitation is in no way intended to be a criticism of that decision. We just plain miss you and think you would make a valuable contribution here."

I wish I could help get enmasse back up. I've posted there way more extensively than the average enmasser. And I personally find it impossible to think that one board is "good" and another "bad". I was gobsmacked by the split in 2006, a few months after I joined babble. Couldn't believe it. Still can't. I come from a milieu where you communicate, all the time, with people you hate (and who reciprocate), who are sexist, racist, homophobic, fascist, communist, Liberal (yup, even them), whatever. And here we had all these folks of generally like-minded opinion, wanting to see the same advances for human society, but couldn't talk to each other in the same online forum? Don't get me started as to the utter incomprehensibility of the partisans of any board over any other board.

6079_Smith_W

Invite them back all you want. How many have come wandering in in the last fortnight?

My point is that whether you were gobsmacked or not at the initial split, there is no reason to question the existence of the two, or any separate boards.

It makes perfect sense to me that some might want to hang out on or the other or both places, even those who don't have a serious reason for doing so.

And that if some people do have a serious reason for wanting to NOT be here, it is not for us to question or speculate about motive.

More importantly, I think a technical problem like this should not be an excuse to raise this as a solution yet again. That is not what is being asked for, and it doesn't help solve the problem, which is to get enmasse online again.

 

 

mark_alfred

It'd be good to see it back up.  I got in touch with jf, who created it some years ago, but he no longer is associated with enmasse, and he doesn't know who runs or owns the domain now.  That's the thing, there's no administrative or technical contact or registrant given when you do a whois on the sitename.  A whois on http://whois.cira.ca stated, "Personal information about the holder of this domain name is not available in the search results because the registration is privacy protected."  So, the registrant must have paid some extra cash to remain anonymous.  Regarding the "auto-renewal grace" thing, I think that's not important.  From what I gather, the registrar (Tucows?) is charged $6.00 by the Registry for renewing the name for another year, and this is automatic.  But, there's a grace period in which they could get back the $6.00 if something regarding the name were to change in a short time after renewal (IE, the registrant cancelled out at the last minute).  Anyway, it doesn't seem particularly significant or indicative of anything (link).  Perhaps whoever owns the domain name and/or runs the site will get it fixed.  Seems there's no way to contact them if they wish to remain anonymous.

6079_Smith_W

But the glitch may be something that the webhost can help with. They can almost certainly pinpoint the problem. If the owner cannot be reached, that is the next place I'd go.

 

mark_alfred

Yeah, maybe.  I was more or less just surfing and talking out of my hat in my last post.  But what the hey, I may as well send an email to Tucows, though I have zero expectation this will result in anything.

swallow swallow's picture

...

mark_alfred

So, on the Tucows site, I found a page entitled, "Contact the Compliance Department – Domain in Redemption or Pending Delete".  So, I sent the following:

Quote:
'enmasse.ca' is not my domain name, but it is down and I am a user of it.  It lists Tucows in the whois as the Registrar (#156), but there is no contact for either the registrant or the technical or admin people.  So, I thought I would write you to notify you that the website is not working.  I hope you can notify the proper people of the situation.  I did not know who else to contact.

Nothing will come of that, I'm sure.  I just discovered they have an office in Toronto, so perhaps I'll call on Monday.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Thanks for taking it to the next level, mark_alfred.

I enjoy opening up discussion threads started by Heph (and there are many) since it feels like he's still around. Same with others who posted frequently and are gone or missing in action.

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Invite them back all you want.  

Gee thanks for your generosity.

Quote:
My point is that whether you were gobsmacked or not at the initial split, there is no reason to question the existence of the two, or any separate boards.

You never really get it, do you? I hail the existence of the different boards, and I have participated actively in all three (recently, two). You just like to create straw men and beat them to death. Sanctimonious.

And last time enmasse was in crisis, I downloaded the entire database so that it wouldn't be lost. I still have it. I'm no technical expert. If you actually did something positive to help here, your straw man might take on a bit more life.

ETA: Do some elementary research - here's what I said about all three boards before you surfaced here. And I still feel the same way. And maybe do something active and positive to help, instead of stirring up shit.

6079_Smith_W

Anyway, I expect if I am reading that stuff correctly the webhost is at the address I posted at #51. But I also expect Tehanu is way ahead of us on that one.

Good luck.

 

mark_alfred

Yeah, it would make more sense to contact netfirms.com.  But really, it would have to be the person who bought the domain in the first place.

6079_Smith_W

But failing that, the next best thing, and Tehanu is the point person over there. Again, this is probably territory she has covered already. It is just the best I can think of. They host a million sites; I am sure they have had people call them whose domain owners have died or otherwise dropped off the face of the earth.

And it might be a glitch that doesn't require the domain owner to fix. And even if it does, they can almost certainly explain WHAT the problem is - something which we don't seem to know now.

 

 

 

mark_alfred

*

mark_alfred

Re:  post 74.  Yeah, it would be good to know what the problem is.  Though I expect they wouldn't be too forthcoming with people other than the owner.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Unionist wrote:

So, is there something wrong with reaching out to old friends and telling them that we (or I or you or whoever) miss them and would love to see them back here? We could add the apparently necessary disclaimer: "Of course, we respect entirely your reasons for leaving (or getting kicked out) and this invitation is in no way intended to be a criticism of that decision. We just plain miss you and think you would make a valuable contribution here."

I wish I could help get enmasse back up. I've posted there way more extensively than the average enmasser. And I personally find it impossible to think that one board is "good" and another "bad". I was gobsmacked by the split in 2006, a few months after I joined babble. Couldn't believe it. Still can't. I come from a milieu where you communicate, all the time, with people you hate (and who reciprocate), who are sexist, racist, homophobic, fascist, communist, Liberal (yup, even them), whatever. And here we had all these folks of generally like-minded opinion, wanting to see the same advances for human society, but couldn't talk to each other in the same online forum? Don't get me started as to the utter incomprehensibility of the partisans of any board over any other board.

 

Thumbs up! Love, hate you brother U! Always love first and hate is a word I'm trying to ditch. Cheers!

6079_Smith_W

When I try to contact the IP address for the mail exchanger I get a page saying the account has been suspended.

http://66.196.39.101/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi

I tried sending an email message. It failed.

Perhaps this is not an accident. I am quite sure the webhost will be able to explain what is happening there.

http://enmasse.ca.urlss.org/

Just thinking back to the fact this crash coincided with the automatic renewal. Perhaps (despite the "automatic") there was some sort of confirmation that needed to happen, which did not.

But again, I know nothing about this stuff. It would be a lot easier with a techie who understands what this means.

 

mark_alfred

I also know nothing about this stuff.  But from a reverse whois lookup (a search on the IP address) I found three sites that are connected to 66.196.39.101, those being startpage.ca, startpageca.com, and enmasse.ca.  The first two of these say "Account suspended" when you look them up, but the enmasse.ca site says "Server not found", which is a very different message.  Why this is, and why all three of these accounts share the same IP address, I haven't a clue.

cco

I reached out to my contact at Tucows who helped resolve a similar situation the last time it happened. He's in Europe on vacation and doesn't have access to the system at the moment, but tells me it's (while expired) in the auto-renewal grace period, that the DNS points to netfirms.ca, which is one of Tucows's resellers, and that they (netfirms) might be willing to let someone who isn't the listed owner pay to renew it if contacted. 40 days until it's lost.

mark_alfred, that's a fairly common scenario with shared virtual hosting. Most minor sites don't get enough traffic to merit a separate individual server with a fixed IP address.

Unionist

cco wrote:

... they (netfirms) might be willing to let someone who isn't the listed owner pay to renew it if contacted. 40 days until it's lost...

How much?? I have a Netfirms-hosted site - costs me less than $70 per year. If that's what enmasse pays, I'll definitely chip in. 

Caissa

Is there an EnMasse update?

Unionist

Caissa wrote:

Is there an EnMasse update?

Just wondering the same myself. I'm going to send the question by PM to all the usual suspects.

Caissa

Bump

Caissa
Caissa

Has EnMasse migrated somewhere? Facebook?

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Some of the EM regulars don't Facebook, and I don't know that it has migrated anywhere. :(

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